2 ms·

Women are typically judged/evaluated excessively on the basis of their looks, so his assertion basically says "yep I/Google evaluate women on the basis of their

Women are typically judged/evaluated excessively on the basis of their looks, so his assertion basically says "yep I/Google evaluate women on the basis of their looks".

meowface 12y ago
Is there a link with a collection of all of the comments?
- grandalf 12y ago
  I scrolled through more of the tweets.
  - meowface 12y ago
    * Edit: The comment I was replying to a few posts up was edited, which affected what it looked like I was trying to say, so I deleted my reply. -------------------------------------------- Your parent comment doesn't make any sense regarding the Sasha Grey remark. I assume you're talking about >"You look amazing in that bathing suit, like a rock star." -Vic Gundotra, to me, when I was a junior engineer at Google. In Maui. I agree that may be an inappropriate remark depending on the context, but "yep I/Google evaluate women on the basis of their looks" is complete hyperbole.
    - grandalf 12y ago
      Yes that is the comment I was referring to. I am a guy and so I'm not necessarily the best judge of whether that comment would make women feel uncomfortable. But imagine you're sitting there with a bunch of female executives and they are talking about some actor's muscular shoulders and you realize that many of the higher-up males do have muscular shoulders and that they clearly really like that. How will that make you feel if you don't have muscular shoulders. You might feel pressure to go to the gym more, or that your prospects at the company are limited in a way compared to if you did have them. You might even feel a bit insulted if your shoulders were clearly far from muscular, and this is a characteristic that you could actually change by working out. Looks in general are much more a lottery/luck kind of thing. So while looks are definitely part of life and most people are average looking, the expectations that women face regarding looks are different than those faced by men. This just means that they have more pressure to look a certain way and to be judged positively or harshly on the basis of their looks.
      - meowface 12y ago
        >How will that make you feel if you don't have muscular shoulders. You might feel pressure to go to the gym more, or that your prospects at the company are limited in a way compared to if you did have them. You might even feel a bit insulted if your shoulders were clearly far from muscular. I would not feel insulted (I'm not attractive at all, but someone talking about an actor's physical traits would not bother me), but I suppose someone else might. If this is an "after work drinking" occasion, things like that are par for the course. If the comments aren't directed towards you in any way I think it's kind of ridiculous to feel offended or harassed. The bathing suit comment is different because it was directed only at her, though I think that's just more an inappropriate remark that would make one feel uncomfortable, not evidence that "I represent Google and I judge women based on their looks."
        grandalf 12y ago
        Insulted is not the feeling I'm concerned about. Generally people only feel insulted by something that is personal. It's only relevant because women are typically judged on the basis of their looks. I'm not saying that comment is alone indicting, but in the context of the other comments it appears that Vic is more of a man's man who has fairly traditional ideas of men, women, beauty, and workplace conduct.
        danellis 12y ago
        Everybody is judged on the basis of their looks. Men too.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
zaroth 12y ago
We are all judged/evaluated excessively on the basis of our looks.
- richmarr 12y ago
  Maybe we're all judged excessively compared to some imaginary meritocratic utopia, but the in this world women are judged by their looks much more than men are.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - zaroth 12y ago
    Compared to an imaginary meritocratic utopia? Hardly. Here in the real world ugly men are judged quite harshly, right alongside ugly women. Fat, bald, puny, nerdy, zit-faced, short, weakling, dork, creep, loser... humans are strongly attracted and hardwired to follow the beautiful and shun the ugly. It's beyond naive to think women only judge men based on their brains and men only judge women based on their figure. My point is that at some point the crusaders on both sides of this should step back and realize that most of us actually have dealt discrimination and harassment to some degree, and I think the best solutions actually don't involve putting women up on pedestals or men in gags and blindfolds. I think your belief that women are judged more superficially than men is driven more from mass media than scientific fact.
    - richmarr 12y ago
      > I think your belief that women are judged more superficially than men is driven more from mass media than scientific fact. Uh-huh. If you want to start talking about scientific evidence, where's yours?
      - zaroth 12y ago
        The phrase "what is beautiful is good", a.k.a. "lookism", was coined by Dion, Bercheid, and Walster in 1972. Of course there are also many studies since both supporting and refuting the theory. A excerpt from a meta-analysis of the topic by Eagly, Ashore, Marhijani, Longo from 1991; Whether physical attractiveness is more important to per- ceivers of one sex than the other is not entirely clear. In view of Feingold's (1990a) meta-analysis showing that men place greater value on physical attractiveness than women do, especially when romantic attraction is considered, it is possible to argue that physical attractiveness could be a more powerful dimen- sion in men's than women's implicit theories of personality. However, the research we review on the physical attractiveness stereotype was not carried out in the context of romantic rela- tionships. Moreover, the question addressed in research on the physical attractiveness stereotype pertains to the meaning in- ferred from attractiveness cues, not the importance of attractive- ness. Men and women may differ in the importance they ac- cord to attractiveness even though they infer similar meaning (e.g., social competence) from attractiveness cues. Particularly in view of evidence that the content of gender stereotypes differs little for male and female subjects (e.g., Deaux & Lewis, 1983,1984; Eagly & Steffen, 1984), we suspect that the physical attractiveness stereotype is widely shared in American culture and is therefore little affected by variation in subject character- istics, including subject sex. For lighter reading, "Blink" (Gladwell) is salient but not exactly scientific.

Women are typically judged/evaluated excessively on the basis of their looks, so his assertion basically says "yep I/Google evaluate women on the basis of their looks".

meowface 12y ago

Is there a link with a collection of all of the comments?

grandalf 12y ago
I scrolled through more of the tweets.
- meowface 12y ago
  * Edit: The comment I was replying to a few posts up was edited, which affected what it looked like I was trying to say, so I deleted my reply. -------------------------------------------- Your parent comment doesn't make any sense regarding the Sasha Grey remark. I assume you're talking about >"You look amazing in that bathing suit, like a rock star." -Vic Gundotra, to me, when I was a junior engineer at Google. In Maui. I agree that may be an inappropriate remark depending on the context, but "yep I/Google evaluate women on the basis of their looks" is complete hyperbole.
  - grandalf 12y ago
    Yes that is the comment I was referring to. I am a guy and so I'm not necessarily the best judge of whether that comment would make women feel uncomfortable. But imagine you're sitting there with a bunch of female executives and they are talking about some actor's muscular shoulders and you realize that many of the higher-up males do have muscular shoulders and that they clearly really like that. How will that make you feel if you don't have muscular shoulders. You might feel pressure to go to the gym more, or that your prospects at the company are limited in a way compared to if you did have them. You might even feel a bit insulted if your shoulders were clearly far from muscular, and this is a characteristic that you could actually change by working out. Looks in general are much more a lottery/luck kind of thing. So while looks are definitely part of life and most people are average looking, the expectations that women face regarding looks are different than those faced by men. This just means that they have more pressure to look a certain way and to be judged positively or harshly on the basis of their looks.
    - meowface 12y ago
      >How will that make you feel if you don't have muscular shoulders. You might feel pressure to go to the gym more, or that your prospects at the company are limited in a way compared to if you did have them. You might even feel a bit insulted if your shoulders were clearly far from muscular. I would not feel insulted (I'm not attractive at all, but someone talking about an actor's physical traits would not bother me), but I suppose someone else might. If this is an "after work drinking" occasion, things like that are par for the course. If the comments aren't directed towards you in any way I think it's kind of ridiculous to feel offended or harassed. The bathing suit comment is different because it was directed only at her, though I think that's just more an inappropriate remark that would make one feel uncomfortable, not evidence that "I represent Google and I judge women based on their looks."
      - grandalf 12y ago
        Insulted is not the feeling I'm concerned about. Generally people only feel insulted by something that is personal. It's only relevant because women are typically judged on the basis of their looks. I'm not saying that comment is alone indicting, but in the context of the other comments it appears that Vic is more of a man's man who has fairly traditional ideas of men, women, beauty, and workplace conduct.
        danellis 12y ago
        Everybody is judged on the basis of their looks. Men too.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

zaroth 12y ago

We are all judged/evaluated excessively on the basis of our looks.

richmarr 12y ago
Maybe we're all judged excessively compared to some imaginary meritocratic utopia, but the in this world women are judged by their looks much more than men are.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- zaroth 12y ago
  Compared to an imaginary meritocratic utopia? Hardly. Here in the real world ugly men are judged quite harshly, right alongside ugly women. Fat, bald, puny, nerdy, zit-faced, short, weakling, dork, creep, loser... humans are strongly attracted and hardwired to follow the beautiful and shun the ugly. It's beyond naive to think women only judge men based on their brains and men only judge women based on their figure. My point is that at some point the crusaders on both sides of this should step back and realize that most of us actually have dealt discrimination and harassment to some degree, and I think the best solutions actually don't involve putting women up on pedestals or men in gags and blindfolds. I think your belief that women are judged more superficially than men is driven more from mass media than scientific fact.
  - richmarr 12y ago
    > I think your belief that women are judged more superficially than men is driven more from mass media than scientific fact. Uh-huh. If you want to start talking about scientific evidence, where's yours?
    - zaroth 12y ago
      The phrase "what is beautiful is good", a.k.a. "lookism", was coined by Dion, Bercheid, and Walster in 1972. Of course there are also many studies since both supporting and refuting the theory. A excerpt from a meta-analysis of the topic by Eagly, Ashore, Marhijani, Longo from 1991; Whether physical attractiveness is more important to per- ceivers of one sex than the other is not entirely clear. In view of Feingold's (1990a) meta-analysis showing that men place greater value on physical attractiveness than women do, especially when romantic attraction is considered, it is possible to argue that physical attractiveness could be a more powerful dimen- sion in men's than women's implicit theories of personality. However, the research we review on the physical attractiveness stereotype was not carried out in the context of romantic rela- tionships. Moreover, the question addressed in research on the physical attractiveness stereotype pertains to the meaning in- ferred from attractiveness cues, not the importance of attractive- ness. Men and women may differ in the importance they ac- cord to attractiveness even though they infer similar meaning (e.g., social competence) from attractiveness cues. Particularly in view of evidence that the content of gender stereotypes differs little for male and female subjects (e.g., Deaux & Lewis, 1983,1984; Eagly & Steffen, 1984), we suspect that the physical attractiveness stereotype is widely shared in American culture and is therefore little affected by variation in subject character- istics, including subject sex. For lighter reading, "Blink" (Gladwell) is salient but not exactly scientific.