3 ms·

In the Documentary 'GTFO', Female Video-Gamers Fight Back

5 points by kdazzle 12y ago

DiabloD3 12y ago
Fight back against what exactly? I've played against and with many gamers who happened to be female who were extremely competent. I'm 31, male, and I've played games my entire life. I still play games, and I am good at games. So were these women. Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now, and it has gotten worse with all of these 14 year olds thinking murder simulators are cool (which, honestly, is a good reason to say out of CoD-type games and stick to more professional things like Quake3 CPMA). When I see this stuff, about how women are "subjected" to this stuff, all I see is another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate in today's world. Articles like these do not promote a world where women are equal, it promotes a world where women have no place in the world, and the New York Times should be ashamed of itself, this is not journalism. You think male games just somehow pick on women only? No. You will be told you have a short dick, you're an eternal virgin, you're gay/like it in your mouth/like it up the ass, should have been an abortion, etc. You know how you deal with it? Become better than them and consistently be the highest scoring player in the game round after round: people who trash-talk all the time do it for the false bravado to cover up they suck at the game.
- richmarr 12y ago
  > ... another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate ... I'm 36, and a white male. I've played computer games my whole life... ZX Spectrum, Master system, SNES, Amiga, PC, Wii, PS3. I'm a grown man who still plays table-top RPGs with dice and bits of paper. I was bullied as a kid, not badly, but enough. I have difficultly relating to people. And I'm here to tell you that you are so epically wrong on this. Firstly, men don't need to talk like that to other men either. That's exactly the kind of behaviour that makes "gamers" as a culture seem like a bunch of 5-year-olds compared to regular folks. It's not okay. Your advice to women is to get better at games in the hope they don't get bullied as much. Someone always loses. The bullying is the problem, not the women. Secondly, it's not the same when men abuse women. Abuse about physical appearance cuts far far deeper because of the way women are taught to value themselves by their appearance. Threats of rape and violence are far more real when made against women because women are ALREADY live under the threat of being raped by strangers and family members alike (and don't try the men-get-raped-too line, we do, and it's awful, but it's rare enough that we don't all live in fear of it). Thirdly, you're conflating 'strength' with a willingness to voluntarily suffer verbal abuse and threats as part of something that's supposed to be a leisure activity. Who wants that? Fourthly, you're also dismissing people's pain as irrelevant, or misguided, something that would make anyone feel small. They're telling you that they're hurt, and you're saying it doesn't matter. It's your choice, but it's an approach that won't help you in life. Take that as sincere advice from someone who has real problems with empathy and has had to work hard at it. Actually you know what, I take it back, you're not "epically" wrong on this, you're historically wrong. In a decade or two anyone in tech or games who reads opinions like the one you just shared will be repulsed, almost as if they were reading a defence of apartheid, or a justification why women shouldn't have jobs. Don't be that guy. The good news is that it's just an opinion. Own it then let it go. Be the guy who sees the problem and changes things. It's the mature, empathic response. Level up. Or... you could tell me that I'm a gay, or a dentist, or whatever. Your choice, right?
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
"Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now, " Have you considered that it doesn't have to be that way.
- mg1982 12y ago
  I think you're missing the point in context - it's this way for everyone and the objection is that (this group of) women have assembled their special victims group because they think either they're the only ones affected or it's somehow manifestly worse that they are. But they're not complaining about the behaviour, but that womyn are being targeted (by the patriarchy rape culture misogyny etc etc).
- cjsthompson 12y ago
  It does have to be that way because that's what happens when there is competition. Check out Alfie Kohn's "No Contest: The Case Against Competition" if you want to understand why.

5 points by kdazzle 12y ago

Fight back against what exactly? I've played against and with many gamers who happened to be female who were extremely competent. I'm 31, male, and I've played games my entire life. I still play games, and I am good at games. So were these women. Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now, and it has gotten worse with all of these 14 year olds thinking murder simulators are cool (which, honestly, is a good reason to say out of CoD-type games and stick to more professional things like Quake3 CPMA). When I see this stuff, about how women are "subjected" to this stuff, all I see is another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate in today's world. Articles like these do not promote a world where women are equal, it promotes a world where women have no place in the world, and the New York Times should be ashamed of itself, this is not journalism. You think male games just somehow pick on women only? No. You will be told you have a short dick, you're an eternal virgin, you're gay/like it in your mouth/like it up the ass, should have been an abortion, etc. You know how you deal with it? Become better than them and consistently be the highest scoring player in the game round after round: people who trash-talk all the time do it for the false bravado to cover up they suck at the game.

richmarr 12y ago
> ... another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate ... I'm 36, and a white male. I've played computer games my whole life... ZX Spectrum, Master system, SNES, Amiga, PC, Wii, PS3. I'm a grown man who still plays table-top RPGs with dice and bits of paper. I was bullied as a kid, not badly, but enough. I have difficultly relating to people. And I'm here to tell you that you are so epically wrong on this. Firstly, men don't need to talk like that to other men either. That's exactly the kind of behaviour that makes "gamers" as a culture seem like a bunch of 5-year-olds compared to regular folks. It's not okay. Your advice to women is to get better at games in the hope they don't get bullied as much. Someone always loses. The bullying is the problem, not the women. Secondly, it's not the same when men abuse women. Abuse about physical appearance cuts far far deeper because of the way women are taught to value themselves by their appearance. Threats of rape and violence are far more real when made against women because women are ALREADY live under the threat of being raped by strangers and family members alike (and don't try the men-get-raped-too line, we do, and it's awful, but it's rare enough that we don't all live in fear of it). Thirdly, you're conflating 'strength' with a willingness to voluntarily suffer verbal abuse and threats as part of something that's supposed to be a leisure activity. Who wants that? Fourthly, you're also dismissing people's pain as irrelevant, or misguided, something that would make anyone feel small. They're telling you that they're hurt, and you're saying it doesn't matter. It's your choice, but it's an approach that won't help you in life. Take that as sincere advice from someone who has real problems with empathy and has had to work hard at it. Actually you know what, I take it back, you're not "epically" wrong on this, you're historically wrong. In a decade or two anyone in tech or games who reads opinions like the one you just shared will be repulsed, almost as if they were reading a defence of apartheid, or a justification why women shouldn't have jobs. Don't be that guy. The good news is that it's just an opinion. Own it then let it go. Be the guy who sees the problem and changes things. It's the mature, empathic response. Level up. Or... you could tell me that I'm a gay, or a dentist, or whatever. Your choice, right?

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

"Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now, " Have you considered that it doesn't have to be that way.

mg1982 12y ago
I think you're missing the point in context - it's this way for everyone and the objection is that (this group of) women have assembled their special victims group because they think either they're the only ones affected or it's somehow manifestly worse that they are. But they're not complaining about the behaviour, but that womyn are being targeted (by the patriarchy rape culture misogyny etc etc).
cjsthompson 12y ago
It does have to be that way because that's what happens when there is competition. Check out Alfie Kohn's "No Contest: The Case Against Competition" if you want to understand why.