5 ms·

I have a hard time believing a warrant canary is something that can be trusted. It seems it would be one of the first things that would be brought up to the jud

I have a hard time believing a warrant canary is something that can be trusted. It seems it would be one of the first things that would be brought up to the judge and the judge would order to continue updating the canary. These warrant canaries seem amateurish and nothing more than theater.

jamiesonbecker 12y ago
Assuming that a judge would go so far as to compel them to make a false statement, which would be unconstitutional.
- comrade1 12y ago
  Do you mean a false statement in public? Or in a court of law?
- bhouston 12y ago
  Are you sure there is a law again making false statements to the general public? I think police lie all the time in sting operations or as undercover ops.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    It's the compelling that is ostensibly unconstitutional.
  - spiritplumber 12y ago
    I think the current US law is that lawmen can try to compel you to not discuss a subject, and try to jail you if you do, however, they cannot try to tell you to speak falsehoods about a subject.
- a3n 12y ago
  Could a judge compel someone to give over access to the canary system, so that law enforcement would be the one falsely updating the canary? IAdefinitelyNAL, I've seen mentioned here and there that the police are allowed to lie while carrying out their investigations and duties.
- tedunangst 12y ago
  I like how on the one hand we have people talking about secret courts and the government wantonly ignoring the constitution whenever it pleases them, and then on the other hand we have arguments that a pedantic technicality will somehow prevent the government from getting what it wants.
tptacek 12y ago
For what it's worth, that's what the Whisper Systems people seem to think, after consulting their attorneys.
VonGuard 12y ago
Worked for Apple.
jMyles 12y ago
Simply put, it hasn't been tested in court yet, so any responses, no matter how well informed, are speculation.
- x0x0 12y ago
  No doubt -- but some are more informed than others, so I'd generally go with the advice of council with experience in the relevant fields.
shalmanese 12y ago
But the one advantage this system can rely on is that the legal system is slow and you can resist by simply clogging up the system to such an extent that the canary expires.

jamiesonbecker 12y ago

Assuming that a judge would go so far as to compel them to make a false statement, which would be unconstitutional.

comrade1 12y ago
Do you mean a false statement in public? Or in a court of law?
bhouston 12y ago
Are you sure there is a law again making false statements to the general public? I think police lie all the time in sting operations or as undercover ops.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  It's the compelling that is ostensibly unconstitutional.
- spiritplumber 12y ago
  I think the current US law is that lawmen can try to compel you to not discuss a subject, and try to jail you if you do, however, they cannot try to tell you to speak falsehoods about a subject.
a3n 12y ago
Could a judge compel someone to give over access to the canary system, so that law enforcement would be the one falsely updating the canary? IAdefinitelyNAL, I've seen mentioned here and there that the police are allowed to lie while carrying out their investigations and duties.
tedunangst 12y ago
I like how on the one hand we have people talking about secret courts and the government wantonly ignoring the constitution whenever it pleases them, and then on the other hand we have arguments that a pedantic technicality will somehow prevent the government from getting what it wants.

tptacek 12y ago

For what it's worth, that's what the Whisper Systems people seem to think, after consulting their attorneys.

VonGuard 12y ago

Worked for Apple.

jMyles 12y ago

Simply put, it hasn't been tested in court yet, so any responses, no matter how well informed, are speculation.

x0x0 12y ago
No doubt -- but some are more informed than others, so I'd generally go with the advice of council with experience in the relevant fields.

shalmanese 12y ago

But the one advantage this system can rely on is that the legal system is slow and you can resist by simply clogging up the system to such an extent that the canary expires.