4 ms·

I'm jnovek's co-founder. Unfortunately for the startup I have two kids and a WAF to deal with. Honestly you're right that bootstrapping would be easier, but

I'm jnovek's co-founder. Unfortunately for the startup I have two kids and a WAF to deal with. Honestly you're right that bootstrapping would be easier, but we've been at this for 10 months and working two jobs is really starting take its toll.

izak30 17y ago
Your credit limit is probably around the amount of money you would need in the short term though.
- lloydarmbrust 17y ago
  Hopefully will be getting $20k-$30k in SBA loan. Already put $20k in (credit card). I need $5.5k/mo for mortgage, taxes, and childs/wife living--sub optimal for "ramen" profitability. Also, mortgage only two-years old so no room for second mortgage although I do have a CR above 860.
  - izak30 17y ago
    Cool. I wasn't suggesting that you be irresponsible with your credit, especially given that it's not just _you_ taking the risk. But clearly you've though through your options, that's all I was getting at. That what you'd make, even in your first month of not being under normal employment would more than cover the minimum payment (and hopefully cover most of your expenses). CC isn't the best sort of debt, I understand that, but it's the one most readily accessible to most of us, especially when looking at small amounts and short terms. Have you guys looked into things like kickstarter? I'd be interested to see how well that could/does work for a startup, and not an art project.
- teej 17y ago
  Suggesting that someone live off of credit cards for a startup is wrong. Given that he has a wife and kids? It's gravely irresponsible. I cannot emphasize how bad that advice is.
  - kylecordes 17y ago
    > Suggesting that someone live off of credit cards... In one sense, this is obviously correct. However, the poster/partner is also about to go ask their friends and family to put money at risk to grow this business; yet the poster/partner isn't willing to put N months of living expenses (small N) at risk for it? It could be a hard sell.
  - izak30 17y ago
    Well, they're already profitable. If you're looking at a year or more, I'd agree, it's crazy; but they're asking "how do I make the jump, and be profitable full-time".
fnid 17y ago
You think you're working two full time jobs now, just wait until you go to work full time for a startup! Ten months is not a long time. Can you make arrangements with your current employer? Work 4 ten hour days, and one on the startup ( they don't have to know what you do on your day off of course). Take a sick day or some vacation? Test out your productivity on a dedicated day or week or two. Work a saturday instead of a wednesday. I know I'm not answering your question, others are, which is good. My concern is, what if you take the money and it doesn't work out like you expect? You have lost a job and your friends and family.
- lloydarmbrust 17y ago
  Currently working about 40 hours @ work and 40-60 on startup per week--so when I say I'm working two jobs I'm not exaggerating. My hobby is working. Problem is businesses are closed during my free time, and I can't sell while at work. I'm on borrowed time with my employer anyway--been pushing the limits of civility already (maxed out on sick/vacation). I doubt I have the political stock left to make new arrangements, but appreciate the ideas.
  - fnid 17y ago
    You are in the valley of despair. You are feeling the pain. It's normal. Don't give up. There's no magic genie, getting F&F money isn't going to make things better. In all likelihood, it will make things worse. I love what you are doing. A lot of people talk a lot about the decline of newspapers and you are doing something great to rescue them! What are we going to do without local news? We say, "Think globally, act locally!" but there is no local news anymore. It's dying and you are helping to keep it alive. And you too should stay alive. I feel the exhaustion in your words. Don't give up! Keep at it. Pull back on your hours if you have to. Don't burn yourself out. Don't jeopardize your children's future or your family. It's hard, you're in a really tough spot right now. I have no advice to offer. I do have encouragement though. Keep at it. Keep giving it your all. You're doing a great thing. It can't be easy with your team all over the country. It's like you're all working alone, together. I've been there. I am there. It's not easy. But, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? You're insane. Admit that. It's true. You're outside the box. I don't know what your future holds, but I want it to be great. F&F, Angel, lots of newspapers signing up for your services, whatever! I want you to get the money you need to keep your business alive. I think you can do it. I think the world will be better if you succeed!
skmurphy 17y ago
This is just the start of a long emotional roller coaster. Once you come on board full time you (and/or your wife) may find the uncertainty associated with income from a startup equally taxing. I do not say this to be discouraging but to get you to consider getting your financial affairs in order before coming on board full time (e.g. you may not be able to get any additional credit for several years once you are dependent on a new startup for income). Anything you can do to lower your burn rate without compromising your obligations to your family is probably a good idea today. I think you would be much better served to continue part time and close enough business that you feel comfortable making the transition.
- lloydarmbrust 17y ago
  You must know my wife. Our current clients have proven to be reliable. Once we launch them they directly profit from our product by adding about 5%-8% to their bottom line (our customers are newspapers, BTW). It's unlikely that they will pull out unless they close, and our current customer are all smaller newspapers which make this less likely. Do you think it would serve us better to wait until we have the revenue to support me? What experiences bring you to this conclusion?
  - skmurphy 17y ago
    You are in an uncomfortable but probably sustainable position bootstrapping the business by "working two jobs." If you raise a small amount of money that doesn't allow you to "bridge the gap" (i.e. replace your salary for long enough to allow you to become sustainable) you now face some very hard choices. This is a recurring topic of discussion at the bootstrapper breakfasts (http://www.bootstrapperbreakfasts.com http://www.bootstrapperbreakfasts.com). We have seen folks do better bootstrapping by "working two jobs" (or consulting and building a product). If you come on board "full time" can you consult on projects with newspapers to replace your current income? That might be an alternative that would allow you to align all of your work efforts more closely than two unrelated jobs.

izak30 17y ago

Your credit limit is probably around the amount of money you would need in the short term though.

lloydarmbrust 17y ago
Hopefully will be getting $20k-$30k in SBA loan. Already put $20k in (credit card). I need $5.5k/mo for mortgage, taxes, and childs/wife living--sub optimal for "ramen" profitability. Also, mortgage only two-years old so no room for second mortgage although I do have a CR above 860.
- izak30 17y ago
  Cool. I wasn't suggesting that you be irresponsible with your credit, especially given that it's not just _you_ taking the risk. But clearly you've though through your options, that's all I was getting at. That what you'd make, even in your first month of not being under normal employment would more than cover the minimum payment (and hopefully cover most of your expenses). CC isn't the best sort of debt, I understand that, but it's the one most readily accessible to most of us, especially when looking at small amounts and short terms. Have you guys looked into things like kickstarter? I'd be interested to see how well that could/does work for a startup, and not an art project.
teej 17y ago
Suggesting that someone live off of credit cards for a startup is wrong. Given that he has a wife and kids? It's gravely irresponsible. I cannot emphasize how bad that advice is.
- kylecordes 17y ago
  > Suggesting that someone live off of credit cards... In one sense, this is obviously correct. However, the poster/partner is also about to go ask their friends and family to put money at risk to grow this business; yet the poster/partner isn't willing to put N months of living expenses (small N) at risk for it? It could be a hard sell.
- izak30 17y ago
  Well, they're already profitable. If you're looking at a year or more, I'd agree, it's crazy; but they're asking "how do I make the jump, and be profitable full-time".

fnid 17y ago

You think you're working two full time jobs now, just wait until you go to work full time for a startup! Ten months is not a long time. Can you make arrangements with your current employer? Work 4 ten hour days, and one on the startup ( they don't have to know what you do on your day off of course). Take a sick day or some vacation? Test out your productivity on a dedicated day or week or two. Work a saturday instead of a wednesday. I know I'm not answering your question, others are, which is good. My concern is, what if you take the money and it doesn't work out like you expect? You have lost a job and your friends and family.

lloydarmbrust 17y ago
Currently working about 40 hours @ work and 40-60 on startup per week--so when I say I'm working two jobs I'm not exaggerating. My hobby is working. Problem is businesses are closed during my free time, and I can't sell while at work. I'm on borrowed time with my employer anyway--been pushing the limits of civility already (maxed out on sick/vacation). I doubt I have the political stock left to make new arrangements, but appreciate the ideas.
- fnid 17y ago
  You are in the valley of despair. You are feeling the pain. It's normal. Don't give up. There's no magic genie, getting F&F money isn't going to make things better. In all likelihood, it will make things worse. I love what you are doing. A lot of people talk a lot about the decline of newspapers and you are doing something great to rescue them! What are we going to do without local news? We say, "Think globally, act locally!" but there is no local news anymore. It's dying and you are helping to keep it alive. And you too should stay alive. I feel the exhaustion in your words. Don't give up! Keep at it. Pull back on your hours if you have to. Don't burn yourself out. Don't jeopardize your children's future or your family. It's hard, you're in a really tough spot right now. I have no advice to offer. I do have encouragement though. Keep at it. Keep giving it your all. You're doing a great thing. It can't be easy with your team all over the country. It's like you're all working alone, together. I've been there. I am there. It's not easy. But, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? You're insane. Admit that. It's true. You're outside the box. I don't know what your future holds, but I want it to be great. F&F, Angel, lots of newspapers signing up for your services, whatever! I want you to get the money you need to keep your business alive. I think you can do it. I think the world will be better if you succeed!

skmurphy 17y ago

This is just the start of a long emotional roller coaster. Once you come on board full time you (and/or your wife) may find the uncertainty associated with income from a startup equally taxing. I do not say this to be discouraging but to get you to consider getting your financial affairs in order before coming on board full time (e.g. you may not be able to get any additional credit for several years once you are dependent on a new startup for income). Anything you can do to lower your burn rate without compromising your obligations to your family is probably a good idea today. I think you would be much better served to continue part time and close enough business that you feel comfortable making the transition.

lloydarmbrust 17y ago
You must know my wife. Our current clients have proven to be reliable. Once we launch them they directly profit from our product by adding about 5%-8% to their bottom line (our customers are newspapers, BTW). It's unlikely that they will pull out unless they close, and our current customer are all smaller newspapers which make this less likely. Do you think it would serve us better to wait until we have the revenue to support me? What experiences bring you to this conclusion?
- skmurphy 17y ago
  You are in an uncomfortable but probably sustainable position bootstrapping the business by "working two jobs." If you raise a small amount of money that doesn't allow you to "bridge the gap" (i.e. replace your salary for long enough to allow you to become sustainable) you now face some very hard choices. This is a recurring topic of discussion at the bootstrapper breakfasts (http://www.bootstrapperbreakfasts.com http://www.bootstrapperbreakfasts.com). We have seen folks do better bootstrapping by "working two jobs" (or consulting and building a product). If you come on board "full time" can you consult on projects with newspapers to replace your current income? That might be an alternative that would allow you to align all of your work efforts more closely than two unrelated jobs.