4 ms·

Well what should we expect? In the last 20-30 years, a huge amount of effort has (rightly) been put into bringing girls' performance up. Examples include substi

by marrs 12y ago

Well what should we expect? In the last 20-30 years, a huge amount of effort has (rightly) been put into bringing girls' performance up. Examples include substituting practical classes for theory, exams for courseware, and so on. Also, for quite unrelated reasons, there are fewer male teachers (i.e. role models) than ever before. So if I was interested in gender equality then I might suggest that maybe the balance has swung too far and we need to reverse some of these changes just a little bit, but I'm actually a feminist so I'm just going to declare victory and move on.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
orblivion 12y ago
> if I was interested in gender equality ... I'm actually a feminist so I'm just going to declare victory and move on. I'm not a feminist, but I wonder if you're really representing the feminist point of view, at least as most feminists would like to be seen.
- LanceH 12y ago
  I rather expect these results will be used as proof of sexism at the next level. Women outperform men in school (not a problem) therefore men are only achieving through the patriarchy in business. I say that I expect it, but I've already had friends telling me this is the way it is.
  - sanxiyn 12y ago
    I wouldn't say "only" there, but isn't it true that men are achieving through the partriarchy in business?
    - LanceH 12y ago
      "men are achieving through patriarchy" That's a true statement, but it's not a basis for action, much less legislation. Another true statement, "women are achieving by sleeping their way to promotions." Most of us, however are at a place of employment where men and women do get along. An imbalance of men/women in the workplace isn't by itself proof of anything. I'm in a shop with an imbalance, but we're hiring and can't find anyone. If women were out there making 77% of men, we'd love to talk to them. But they're not, and at the same time we're lumped in as the problem because our industry has some "brogrammers" which is a phenomenon I've never actually witnessed. Of course the next thing I'll hear is that because I claim not to have witnessed it is because the culture is so deep it is invisible and I'm a part of it. Well, I'm sorry, 30+ years of hearing how I'm the problem really gets old. Of course some people aren't talking about all men, but if I say "not all men", I've hit another trigger. It's a minefield and I'm sure just by writing more than a single line of agreement I've stepped on one.
  - marrs 12y ago
    Until these results trickle through to the workplace as well. When I was still in school, girls were outperforming boys at secondary level, but not at further or higher levels, then they started out-performing boys at further level. Now women outperform men in higher education as well. There is already evidence that this trend is starting to be observed in the workplace as well. If fathers start to take paternity leave, as they are now entitled to do in the UK, this trend may continue through parenthood as well.
- marrs 12y ago
  I really don't know anymore. I've been listening to a lot of feminist activists on the radio recently, probably because of the lead up to international women's day, and they can barely conceal their misandry, and it's been getting on my nerves. This may have affected the tone of my reply.
marrs 12y ago
I meant "coursework", not "courseware".

by marrs 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

orblivion 12y ago

> if I was interested in gender equality ... I'm actually a feminist so I'm just going to declare victory and move on. I'm not a feminist, but I wonder if you're really representing the feminist point of view, at least as most feminists would like to be seen.

LanceH 12y ago
I rather expect these results will be used as proof of sexism at the next level. Women outperform men in school (not a problem) therefore men are only achieving through the patriarchy in business. I say that I expect it, but I've already had friends telling me this is the way it is.
- sanxiyn 12y ago
  I wouldn't say "only" there, but isn't it true that men are achieving through the partriarchy in business?
  - LanceH 12y ago
    "men are achieving through patriarchy" That's a true statement, but it's not a basis for action, much less legislation. Another true statement, "women are achieving by sleeping their way to promotions." Most of us, however are at a place of employment where men and women do get along. An imbalance of men/women in the workplace isn't by itself proof of anything. I'm in a shop with an imbalance, but we're hiring and can't find anyone. If women were out there making 77% of men, we'd love to talk to them. But they're not, and at the same time we're lumped in as the problem because our industry has some "brogrammers" which is a phenomenon I've never actually witnessed. Of course the next thing I'll hear is that because I claim not to have witnessed it is because the culture is so deep it is invisible and I'm a part of it. Well, I'm sorry, 30+ years of hearing how I'm the problem really gets old. Of course some people aren't talking about all men, but if I say "not all men", I've hit another trigger. It's a minefield and I'm sure just by writing more than a single line of agreement I've stepped on one.
- marrs 12y ago
  Until these results trickle through to the workplace as well. When I was still in school, girls were outperforming boys at secondary level, but not at further or higher levels, then they started out-performing boys at further level. Now women outperform men in higher education as well. There is already evidence that this trend is starting to be observed in the workplace as well. If fathers start to take paternity leave, as they are now entitled to do in the UK, this trend may continue through parenthood as well.
marrs 12y ago
I really don't know anymore. I've been listening to a lot of feminist activists on the radio recently, probably because of the lead up to international women's day, and they can barely conceal their misandry, and it's been getting on my nerves. This may have affected the tone of my reply.

marrs 12y ago

I meant "coursework", not "courseware".