5 ms·

There is lots of interesting information in this thread, with several references to a "Fire fast" culture becoming more common amongst tech companies. As a UK

There is lots of interesting information in this thread, with several references to a "Fire fast" culture becoming more common amongst tech companies. As a UK citizen, I have to ask: Are the employment laws a lot weaker in the US? In general it would be difficult to institute such a policy over here without a half decent lawyer shredding you to pieces. [1],[2] for ref. [1]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/business/volvo-business/10953386/employment-law-sack-employee.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/business/volvo-business... [2]:https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/overview https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/overview

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Are the employment laws a lot weaker in the US? Don't know about the details of the UK specifically, but, yes, employment protection laws in the US are all-but-non-existent, with at-will employment allowing immediate termination for any but specifically-prohibited (e.g., race, sex, religious, etc., discrimination, retaliation for invoking certain other protections, etc.) reasons.
- hugofirth 12y ago
  I'm genuinely shocked by this. I'm all for free market mechanisms but come on ... a system without strong employee protection must be naturally prone to abuse.
  - SamReidHughes 12y ago
    Other effects such as the increased willingness to hire people cancel out the bad(?) effects. If by abuse you mean some advantage of negotiating position that the employer could use to eke out long hours (or some other surprise change in the job description), well, the increased ease of firing is canceled out by the increased ease of the employee deciding to get a new job. The degree to which this is the case depends on the job market at the time. You might also observe that a system that has what you call strong employee protection is also prone to abuse (or what you might call people taking advantage of their negotiating position), in the other direction. Maybe it's more important in America to be proactive about avoiding living in a one-company town. Advantage of negotiating position is usually expressed through compensation rates because it's bad business to make employees hate the company after they already have a job. But, you know, I work in software and can't tell what it's like being a barista or farm worker. Edit: and please correct my misunderstanding if you mean something else by abuse. That's just the only meaning I can think of.
- shubb 12y ago
  UK law for new employees is pretty weak. You are basically 'at will' for the first year (although you will be paid notice, in my case 1 week). This is a good read: http://www.lzwlaw.co.uk/downloads/LZW%20FACT%20SHEET%20SJ.pdf http://www.lzwlaw.co.uk/downloads/LZW%20FACT%20SHEET%20SJ.pd...
  - twic 12y ago
    Huh. I didn't know this: "So, let us assume you have passed your probationary period. Is your employment position then safe? Actually it isn’t. Your employer has until the end of the first year of your employment (technically 11 months and 3 weeks) during which time they can still terminate your employment without fear of the employee making a claim for unfair dismissal. This is because employment legislation provides that you need to be employed for this period of time before you are eligible to lodge a claim." An employee does gain some protection after passing probation - a longer notice period, usually - but it's worth knowing that passing probation isn't the be-all and end-all.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Are the employment laws a lot weaker in the US? Don't know about the details of the UK specifically, but, yes, employment protection laws in the US are all-but-non-existent, with at-will employment allowing immediate termination for any but specifically-prohibited (e.g., race, sex, religious, etc., discrimination, retaliation for invoking certain other protections, etc.) reasons.

hugofirth 12y ago
I'm genuinely shocked by this. I'm all for free market mechanisms but come on ... a system without strong employee protection must be naturally prone to abuse.
- SamReidHughes 12y ago
  Other effects such as the increased willingness to hire people cancel out the bad(?) effects. If by abuse you mean some advantage of negotiating position that the employer could use to eke out long hours (or some other surprise change in the job description), well, the increased ease of firing is canceled out by the increased ease of the employee deciding to get a new job. The degree to which this is the case depends on the job market at the time. You might also observe that a system that has what you call strong employee protection is also prone to abuse (or what you might call people taking advantage of their negotiating position), in the other direction. Maybe it's more important in America to be proactive about avoiding living in a one-company town. Advantage of negotiating position is usually expressed through compensation rates because it's bad business to make employees hate the company after they already have a job. But, you know, I work in software and can't tell what it's like being a barista or farm worker. Edit: and please correct my misunderstanding if you mean something else by abuse. That's just the only meaning I can think of.
shubb 12y ago
UK law for new employees is pretty weak. You are basically 'at will' for the first year (although you will be paid notice, in my case 1 week). This is a good read: http://www.lzwlaw.co.uk/downloads/LZW%20FACT%20SHEET%20SJ.pdf http://www.lzwlaw.co.uk/downloads/LZW%20FACT%20SHEET%20SJ.pd...
- twic 12y ago
  Huh. I didn't know this: "So, let us assume you have passed your probationary period. Is your employment position then safe? Actually it isn’t. Your employer has until the end of the first year of your employment (technically 11 months and 3 weeks) during which time they can still terminate your employment without fear of the employee making a claim for unfair dismissal. This is because employment legislation provides that you need to be employed for this period of time before you are eligible to lodge a claim." An employee does gain some protection after passing probation - a longer notice period, usually - but it's worth knowing that passing probation isn't the be-all and end-all.