4 ms·

As somebody who agrees in theory with tptacek's posts and now this blog post, what I find very funny is how I perceive typical technical hiring, with the interv

As somebody who agrees in theory with tptacek's posts and now this blog post, what I find very funny is how I perceive typical technical hiring, with the interview gauntlet, to still be way better than what some other industries must do. How the hell does anybody hire a teacher?

lutorm 12y ago
By asking them to teach something and observing them do it.
adpirz 12y ago
Teacher here. Good schools will ask you to teach a sample lesson on a particular subject and prep your own materials. Principals and other teachers will observe and give feedback. It's what I did to work at my current school, and we're one of the top performing schools in our state.
- eru 12y ago
  Sounds like a work sample test to me. Great!
  - tomp 12y ago
    Except that it's the kind of work-sample test that you can't do in the evening, and is hard to complete if you already have a full-time job (except if only other teachers are the audience).
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  How would principals/teachers know if and how much the sample lesson transfers knowledge to students? It seems like this would filter out disasters, but can it do more than that?
  - adpirz 12y ago
    That's when you look at other factors like past performance, including (but certainly not limited to) performance on his / her pupils' standardized tests. Like any other hiring process, it's not always perfect, but you also learn along the way which characteristics make for great teachers (responding to feedback, ability to engage with students, timeliness, etc.).
scottm01 12y ago
I also agree with the sentiment of this post and have always been surprised how poorly prepared most engineers are to fairly conduct interviews. I'm reasonably convinced it's contributing seriously to inequality issues and the "tech labor shortage", and I'm absolutely convinced it's the reason I don't job hop more then I do (hrm, maybe that's part of why the system still sucks?) That said, my wife happens to be a teacher. The process from what I can tell in private schools is pretty similar. Usually a recruiter ("placement agency") sends a bunch of resumes (CVs) to a hiring manager (department lead or school head). They pick some based on how they feel that day and conduct phone screens. Successful applicants then come in to do the equivalent of a whiteboard interview -- they are evaluated on their ability to teach a classroom of students they've never met a lesson plan they've probably not seen more then a day or two in advance (although at least they get that much warning!) edit On reflection I hope that teachers are at least a little more capable of objectively evaluating candidates then your average sysadmin/software engineer (how often are you asked to assess someones ability outside a handful of interviews?), but believe me the sample lesson causes as much stress on the candidate as a whiteboard interview. It also stresses the teacher whose class is being "donated" to candidates and depending on the length of the process can derail what's usually a carefully planned out quarter/semester/etc.
white-flame 12y ago
A big difference is that the benefits of quality programmers manifest over long projects. With many other industries, you can say "Do this" in a shorter, observable time frame and have it more aligned with what they'll be facing on the job. Contrast this to dumb interview coding challenges, for instance.
dsp1234 12y ago
A recent interview for a teaching position involved being given the name of a class to teach. At that point, generating sample classroom materials (a simple worksheet, powerpoint, etc), and a sample lesson plan. Then the interview consists of teaching the sample lesson plan to several interviewers. In other words, a work sample test.

lutorm 12y ago

By asking them to teach something and observing them do it.

adpirz 12y ago

Teacher here. Good schools will ask you to teach a sample lesson on a particular subject and prep your own materials. Principals and other teachers will observe and give feedback. It's what I did to work at my current school, and we're one of the top performing schools in our state.

eru 12y ago
Sounds like a work sample test to me. Great!
- tomp 12y ago
  Except that it's the kind of work-sample test that you can't do in the evening, and is hard to complete if you already have a full-time job (except if only other teachers are the audience).
yummyfajitas 12y ago
How would principals/teachers know if and how much the sample lesson transfers knowledge to students? It seems like this would filter out disasters, but can it do more than that?
- adpirz 12y ago
  That's when you look at other factors like past performance, including (but certainly not limited to) performance on his / her pupils' standardized tests. Like any other hiring process, it's not always perfect, but you also learn along the way which characteristics make for great teachers (responding to feedback, ability to engage with students, timeliness, etc.).

scottm01 12y ago

I also agree with the sentiment of this post and have always been surprised how poorly prepared most engineers are to fairly conduct interviews. I'm reasonably convinced it's contributing seriously to inequality issues and the "tech labor shortage", and I'm absolutely convinced it's the reason I don't job hop more then I do (hrm, maybe that's part of why the system still sucks?) That said, my wife happens to be a teacher. The process from what I can tell in private schools is pretty similar. Usually a recruiter ("placement agency") sends a bunch of resumes (CVs) to a hiring manager (department lead or school head). They pick some based on how they feel that day and conduct phone screens. Successful applicants then come in to do the equivalent of a whiteboard interview -- they are evaluated on their ability to teach a classroom of students they've never met a lesson plan they've probably not seen more then a day or two in advance (although at least they get that much warning!) edit On reflection I hope that teachers are at least a little more capable of objectively evaluating candidates then your average sysadmin/software engineer (how often are you asked to assess someones ability outside a handful of interviews?), but believe me the sample lesson causes as much stress on the candidate as a whiteboard interview. It also stresses the teacher whose class is being "donated" to candidates and depending on the length of the process can derail what's usually a carefully planned out quarter/semester/etc.

white-flame 12y ago

A big difference is that the benefits of quality programmers manifest over long projects. With many other industries, you can say "Do this" in a shorter, observable time frame and have it more aligned with what they'll be facing on the job. Contrast this to dumb interview coding challenges, for instance.

dsp1234 12y ago

A recent interview for a teaching position involved being given the name of a class to teach. At that point, generating sample classroom materials (a simple worksheet, powerpoint, etc), and a sample lesson plan. Then the interview consists of teaching the sample lesson plan to several interviewers. In other words, a work sample test.