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> The point being, if I started a new company tomorrow, I would, without a doubt, go and try to hire some of those same people to help me start it. And maybe no

> The point being, if I started a new company tomorrow, I would, without a doubt, go and try to hire some of those same people to help me start it. And maybe now, as a more capable manager than I was then, maybe some would make it longer, I don't get this. Are you saying part of the reason you fired them was because you weren't a capable manager, and didn't identify ways to keep a valuable asset as the company changed during growth? And you think these folks would consider working for you again, after you fired them when the company "went another direction," as those conversations always go? I've never worked for you and this comment would give me pause. I can't imagine what this entails. "Thanks for all your work getting us to where we are. The company has gotten a bit bigger, so some of your habits don't fit in your role any more and it's time to let you go." Can you elaborate? Because honestly, that doesn't sound good without further context. I don't believe in union-style loyalty where the first five years entitles someone to the next thirty, but I do believe someone who helped shape the company and generated a lot of value for you deserves more than "well, we've changed, and you don't fit any more." It's par for the course that you can write introspection like this and reflect on your shortcomings as a manager, after culling those with similar shortcomings who have now been asked to leave the company they helped build from early days. Meanwhile, your company is wildly successful and you continue to be rewarded despite your shortcomings while someone else has to start over somewhere else. Where's the accountability for your management?

HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
The reality is that people and businesses change and sometimes those changes don't align. Mature professionals understand this and if you're fired simply because you are very competent, but don't work well with the new business behavior, it's not surprising that the person who fired you would hire you for a different role. It is just not always possible to find a good role for someone in a particular business. I'm sure it's rare, but I can certainly understand how it can happen.
davidu 12y ago
Yes I think they would work for me again. And yes, I am saying I was not a capable manager. Not that I have nothing left to learn, but I think I am more or less at the point of being able to diplomatically handle and resolve 99% of the issues that come up in a way where all parties feel like they are being considered thoughtfully and treated fairly. I have a good mentor network and corporate counsel who help me with the remaining 1% since rarely does a situation come up that they haven't encountered before.
- jsmthrowaway 12y ago
  I'm not sure how to interpret "I have a lawyer just in case" as part of your answer to that question, but it's nonetheless there and I suppose I should acknowledge it. Thanks for your answer, at any rate, though I'm left with more questions than I had when we started.
  - davidu 12y ago
    I had another paragraph explaining the mentor/lawyer comment that I deleted. Oops. :-) What I meant is that I have a really good lawyer who has seen a ton of situations before, and usually when something is new and unique to me, it's not new to him or his partners, and I can lean on their decades of experience to help me navigate what represents a new situation for me. It's not about CYA, or "lawyering up" (quite the opposite). It's about having them tell me how they've handled things in the past. Just like a mentor. Good corporate counsel is all about conflict resolution and avoidance. :-)
    - Domenic_S 12y ago
      This this this, and this. A great lawyer advises you on how to resolve conflict and is an invaluable asset.

HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago

The reality is that people and businesses change and sometimes those changes don't align. Mature professionals understand this and if you're fired simply because you are very competent, but don't work well with the new business behavior, it's not surprising that the person who fired you would hire you for a different role. It is just not always possible to find a good role for someone in a particular business. I'm sure it's rare, but I can certainly understand how it can happen.

davidu 12y ago

Yes I think they would work for me again. And yes, I am saying I was not a capable manager. Not that I have nothing left to learn, but I think I am more or less at the point of being able to diplomatically handle and resolve 99% of the issues that come up in a way where all parties feel like they are being considered thoughtfully and treated fairly. I have a good mentor network and corporate counsel who help me with the remaining 1% since rarely does a situation come up that they haven't encountered before.

jsmthrowaway 12y ago
I'm not sure how to interpret "I have a lawyer just in case" as part of your answer to that question, but it's nonetheless there and I suppose I should acknowledge it. Thanks for your answer, at any rate, though I'm left with more questions than I had when we started.
- davidu 12y ago
  I had another paragraph explaining the mentor/lawyer comment that I deleted. Oops. :-) What I meant is that I have a really good lawyer who has seen a ton of situations before, and usually when something is new and unique to me, it's not new to him or his partners, and I can lean on their decades of experience to help me navigate what represents a new situation for me. It's not about CYA, or "lawyering up" (quite the opposite). It's about having them tell me how they've handled things in the past. Just like a mentor. Good corporate counsel is all about conflict resolution and avoidance. :-)
  - Domenic_S 12y ago
    This this this, and this. A great lawyer advises you on how to resolve conflict and is an invaluable asset.