6 ms·

Facebook post written in Florida lands US man in United Arab Emirates jail

119 points by ajaymehta 12y ago

EdwardDiego 12y ago
Good news everyone, his employers are hiring: http://www.gal.ae/careers/Jobs.aspx http://www.gal.ae/careers/Jobs.aspx Just don't "slander" them.
- Sanddancer 12y ago
  Yep, and you'll be working to train your replacement the entire time [1]. So maybe their complaint is going to be that they're not backstabbers, but that you're signing up to be gutted when you take the job. [1] http://www.gal.ae/emir.aspx http://www.gal.ae/emir.aspx
  - asadlionpk 12y ago
    They are thinking good for their countrymen. I don't see why that is wrongdoing. Their non-Emirati employees do get paid for their work while they are there.
    - gaius 12y ago
      And they are honest and upfront about it, many Western companies aren't.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
TillE 12y ago
I really can't understand why well-off Westerners continue to work in or visit the UAE, Qatar, etc. You have a choice. Unless you're doing some kind of humanitarian or cultural work which actually requires you to be there, stay the hell away.
- b0sk 12y ago
  Money and low taxes. Reason why thousands of people from Asia work in the middle-east despite piss-poor conditions. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read "well-off". Still, more money is the answer.
  - _nedR 12y ago
    >>Money and low taxes More like no taxes. From what i heard, they have no sales tax, or income tax (including companies). And a flat 5% duty on all duty (with that even exempted on certain goods such as computers).
    - marincounty 12y ago
      I thought expats(American) were required to pay U.S. taxes? https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-living-abroad-faq/ https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-l...
      - maxerickson 12y ago
        They are required to file US taxes. Between the $100,000 foreign income exclusion and the foreign tax credit, many will not owe any tax. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei... http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/What-Foreign-Taxes-Qualify-For-The-Foreign-Tax-Credit%3F http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/What-...
        justincormack 12y ago
        There is no tax credit if there is no tax in the country you are in.
- aikah 12y ago
  Well, it depends on how much one is willing to risk for a given salary. I bet the guy was well paid in KSA. He was just ignorant of that specific risk when going back there or too arrogant to think he would get caught. I know a lot of people that work in Singapore too.A beautiful place but you'd better make sure you know the implications of doing things that would seem harmless in the west. Because being a westerner wont make the justice system more lenient. On the contrary,they tend to make examples out of westerners.
leeoniya 12y ago
so, this was a public post? or he was friends with everyone he was badmouthing? illegal or not, that's plain poor decision making.
mullingitover 12y ago
It's beautifully ironic that this was man was arrested at the employer's request, because the man portrayed them negatively. Yeah. Global Aerospace Logistics sure looks like a bunch of swell chaps now, I bet people are lining up to beg to work for them.
- yardie 12y ago
  Well, a new position just opened. So...
higherpurpose 12y ago
Amnesty International released this tool a while ago to see what "crimes" you're committing with your posts in other countries: http://www.trialbytimeline.org.nz/ http://www.trialbytimeline.org.nz/ Also, once again civil libertarians were right: when US starts arresting people from across the globe for doing "crimes" that hardly have anything to do with its jurisdiction, eventually other countries will start doing the same with Americans, knowing that it's "okay" to do that.
- thret 12y ago
  I just ran this for two hours and it was still thinking when I gave up. What if anything does it actually do?
  - dmd 12y ago
    That's the point. You're held indefinitely without trial.
- saryant 12y ago
  He wasn't arrested in the US, he was arrested in Abu Dhabi.
- throwaway344 12y ago
  I'm curious to know exactly what crimes that you think the US has punished around the world. Terrorism? Drugs? Copyright?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- martinko 12y ago
  > to be fair probably wouldn't go down well anywhere Humor me, in which non-middle eastern country would one go to jail for this?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
vertis 12y ago
This is not exactly in the same category, but as I was coming back to Australia a few weeks ago I saw a sign stating that Australia considered child abuse committed internationally to be a crime and would prosecute. With regard to this particular case, it really is your responsibility to know the laws of the place you're going to.
- klodolph 12y ago
  I always assumed this was because Australia was relatively close to "popular" sex tourism destinations. You don't want to be known for exporting child abusers.
  - vertis 12y ago
    I think it's for that reason and also a broader international effort to combat the problem.
qq66 12y ago
The unusual thing here is that a man is being prosecuted for a Facebook post. The fact that he is being prosecuted for something he wrote in the US is not at all unusual. The United States routinely prosecutes Americans who engage in actions which are illegal in the United States, even if the actions are legal in the country in which the action takes place. The US government invokes this extraterritorial jurisdiction mainly for two categories of crimes: sex crimes against minors and corruption/bribery.
jrockway 12y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but why would he admit to it? > "I just couldn't register it in my head because as an American growing up in the United States, the First Amendment right is just ingrained in my brain," he told The Associated Press on Wednesday. I think the correct defense is to make them prove that he wrote, then if they prove he did, start saying "well I thought it was OK".
- usbreply 12y ago
  This isn't America. They don't have to prove (in a court of law) that he wrote it. Their accusation is sufficient. The facebook page has his name on it, "everybody knows" that he wrote it.
paulsutter 12y ago
> Ryan Pate ... is accused of slandering his employer, which is illegal in the Emirates... He wrote in December about his superiors at Global Aerospace Logistics being "backstabbers." Slander is making /false/ defamatory statements. By reporting him to the police on his return trip, his superiors have proven themselves to be backstabbers. Where's the slander?
hmoghnie 12y ago
A small reminder to never work in those countries. Only the desperate ones go there.
ilitirit 12y ago
I'm always amused by the typical comments posted after every story like this. Yes, many places in the ME do have some really archaic laws, but you're more likely to have to get arrested and forced to pay a bribe in places like Thailand, China, many African and South American countries etc. In Thailand you can get arrested for insulting the king (and I won't be surprised if they'd do that over a FaceBook post written in a different country). However, it's not often you hear people advise westerners against going there.
- peterjancelis 12y ago
  The fact that you can pay it off with a bribe makes it much less threatening.
616c 12y ago
This is not very surprising, especially to residents in Qatar, as there has been great anxiety and lack of clarity over the country's first cyber law. http://dohanews.co/criticism-qatars-cybercrime-law-mounts-home-abroad/ http://dohanews.co/criticism-qatars-cybercrime-law-mounts-ho... ‎ Granted, they will tell you it is because of acts of cybervandalism and computer intrusion by hacktivists from the likes of the Syrian Hacker Army and company. Now, those groups have attacked even infrastructure of companies like Qatar Petroleum or RasGas (I forget which one). Now, none of us trust the law because of slander/libel provisions. However, I do not think Americans ought to talk. We have bounced foreigners on entry to the US for non-sensical Facebook commentary about getting wrecked in America, somehow construed to mean they will go on a terror rampage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30267026 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30267026 So, yeah, fellow Americans. We should get off our high horse.

119 points by ajaymehta 12y ago

Good news everyone, his employers are hiring: http://www.gal.ae/careers/Jobs.aspx http://www.gal.ae/careers/Jobs.aspx Just don't "slander" them.

Sanddancer 12y ago
Yep, and you'll be working to train your replacement the entire time [1]. So maybe their complaint is going to be that they're not backstabbers, but that you're signing up to be gutted when you take the job. [1] http://www.gal.ae/emir.aspx http://www.gal.ae/emir.aspx
- asadlionpk 12y ago
  They are thinking good for their countrymen. I don't see why that is wrongdoing. Their non-Emirati employees do get paid for their work while they are there.
  - gaius 12y ago
    And they are honest and upfront about it, many Western companies aren't.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

TillE 12y ago

I really can't understand why well-off Westerners continue to work in or visit the UAE, Qatar, etc. You have a choice. Unless you're doing some kind of humanitarian or cultural work which actually requires you to be there, stay the hell away.

b0sk 12y ago
Money and low taxes. Reason why thousands of people from Asia work in the middle-east despite piss-poor conditions. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read "well-off". Still, more money is the answer.
- _nedR 12y ago
  >>Money and low taxes More like no taxes. From what i heard, they have no sales tax, or income tax (including companies). And a flat 5% duty on all duty (with that even exempted on certain goods such as computers).
  - marincounty 12y ago
    I thought expats(American) were required to pay U.S. taxes? https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-living-abroad-faq/ https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-l...
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      They are required to file US taxes. Between the $100,000 foreign income exclusion and the foreign tax credit, many will not owe any tax. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei... http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/What-Foreign-Taxes-Qualify-For-The-Foreign-Tax-Credit%3F http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/What-...
      - justincormack 12y ago
        There is no tax credit if there is no tax in the country you are in.
aikah 12y ago
Well, it depends on how much one is willing to risk for a given salary. I bet the guy was well paid in KSA. He was just ignorant of that specific risk when going back there or too arrogant to think he would get caught. I know a lot of people that work in Singapore too.A beautiful place but you'd better make sure you know the implications of doing things that would seem harmless in the west. Because being a westerner wont make the justice system more lenient. On the contrary,they tend to make examples out of westerners.

leeoniya 12y ago

so, this was a public post? or he was friends with everyone he was badmouthing? illegal or not, that's plain poor decision making.

mullingitover 12y ago

It's beautifully ironic that this was man was arrested at the employer's request, because the man portrayed them negatively. Yeah. Global Aerospace Logistics sure looks like a bunch of swell chaps now, I bet people are lining up to beg to work for them.

yardie 12y ago
Well, a new position just opened. So...

higherpurpose 12y ago

Amnesty International released this tool a while ago to see what "crimes" you're committing with your posts in other countries: http://www.trialbytimeline.org.nz/ http://www.trialbytimeline.org.nz/ Also, once again civil libertarians were right: when US starts arresting people from across the globe for doing "crimes" that hardly have anything to do with its jurisdiction, eventually other countries will start doing the same with Americans, knowing that it's "okay" to do that.

thret 12y ago
I just ran this for two hours and it was still thinking when I gave up. What if anything does it actually do?
- dmd 12y ago
  That's the point. You're held indefinitely without trial.
saryant 12y ago
He wasn't arrested in the US, he was arrested in Abu Dhabi.
throwaway344 12y ago
I'm curious to know exactly what crimes that you think the US has punished around the world. Terrorism? Drugs? Copyright?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

martinko 12y ago
> to be fair probably wouldn't go down well anywhere Humor me, in which non-middle eastern country would one go to jail for this?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

vertis 12y ago

This is not exactly in the same category, but as I was coming back to Australia a few weeks ago I saw a sign stating that Australia considered child abuse committed internationally to be a crime and would prosecute. With regard to this particular case, it really is your responsibility to know the laws of the place you're going to.

klodolph 12y ago
I always assumed this was because Australia was relatively close to "popular" sex tourism destinations. You don't want to be known for exporting child abusers.
- vertis 12y ago
  I think it's for that reason and also a broader international effort to combat the problem.

qq66 12y ago

The unusual thing here is that a man is being prosecuted for a Facebook post. The fact that he is being prosecuted for something he wrote in the US is not at all unusual. The United States routinely prosecutes Americans who engage in actions which are illegal in the United States, even if the actions are legal in the country in which the action takes place. The US government invokes this extraterritorial jurisdiction mainly for two categories of crimes: sex crimes against minors and corruption/bribery.

jrockway 12y ago

I'm not a lawyer, but why would he admit to it? > "I just couldn't register it in my head because as an American growing up in the United States, the First Amendment right is just ingrained in my brain," he told The Associated Press on Wednesday. I think the correct defense is to make them prove that he wrote, then if they prove he did, start saying "well I thought it was OK".

usbreply 12y ago
This isn't America. They don't have to prove (in a court of law) that he wrote it. Their accusation is sufficient. The facebook page has his name on it, "everybody knows" that he wrote it.

paulsutter 12y ago

> Ryan Pate ... is accused of slandering his employer, which is illegal in the Emirates... He wrote in December about his superiors at Global Aerospace Logistics being "backstabbers." Slander is making /false/ defamatory statements. By reporting him to the police on his return trip, his superiors have proven themselves to be backstabbers. Where's the slander?

hmoghnie 12y ago

A small reminder to never work in those countries. Only the desperate ones go there.

ilitirit 12y ago

I'm always amused by the typical comments posted after every story like this. Yes, many places in the ME do have some really archaic laws, but you're more likely to have to get arrested and forced to pay a bribe in places like Thailand, China, many African and South American countries etc. In Thailand you can get arrested for insulting the king (and I won't be surprised if they'd do that over a FaceBook post written in a different country). However, it's not often you hear people advise westerners against going there.

peterjancelis 12y ago
The fact that you can pay it off with a bribe makes it much less threatening.

616c 12y ago

This is not very surprising, especially to residents in Qatar, as there has been great anxiety and lack of clarity over the country's first cyber law. http://dohanews.co/criticism-qatars-cybercrime-law-mounts-home-abroad/ http://dohanews.co/criticism-qatars-cybercrime-law-mounts-ho... ‎ Granted, they will tell you it is because of acts of cybervandalism and computer intrusion by hacktivists from the likes of the Syrian Hacker Army and company. Now, those groups have attacked even infrastructure of companies like Qatar Petroleum or RasGas (I forget which one). Now, none of us trust the law because of slander/libel provisions. However, I do not think Americans ought to talk. We have bounced foreigners on entry to the US for non-sensical Facebook commentary about getting wrecked in America, somehow construed to mean they will go on a terror rampage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30267026 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30267026 So, yeah, fellow Americans. We should get off our high horse.