4 ms·

That story was just an example. You're always going to have information that you don't want other people to know. There is no exception. Everyone has thoughts

by learc83 12y ago

That story was just an example. You're always going to have information that you don't want other people to know. There is no exception. Everyone has thoughts and actions that they don't want made public--if you make up silly rules like "I'm never going to tell a lie", you'll eventually find yourself coming up with other ways to keep those thoughts and actions private.

vinceguidry 12y ago
> You're always going to have information that you don't want other people to know. There is no exception. If someone asks you something that you don't want to tell them, tell them you don't want to tell them that information. You do not have to be dishonest in order to not tell someone something, nor do you need silly rules. You can do that in an honest and straightforward fashion.
- learc83 12y ago
  That doesn't always work because simply not answering a question can reveal information that you don't want shared. When I was in middle school my mom cut my hair to save money. I was embarrassed by this. I dreaded people asking me questions about my haircut because I didn't want to tell them my mom cut it, but I didn't want to lie about where I got it cut. If someone asked me where I got my hair cut and I respond with "I don't want to talk about it", that answer would have revealed just as much sensitive information. I started changing my behavior to avoid this question--getting my hair cut at the beginning of a long break, so I could avoid people right after it was cut when they were most likely to ask. All I was doing was finding new ways to hide information. Now the obvious solution would have been to stop worrying about what other people thought. But I couldn't do that. We all have information like this, and we can be honest with ourselves and realize that 100% honesty with other people is a joke, or we can try to come up with other means to keep the information hidden that we think are morally superior to direct deception.
  - vinceguidry 12y ago
    It's practically impossible to do this as a kid. You just don't know what or how to be honest, you don't have enough experience to be able to tell the difference. But you can and should try to do this as an adult, as much as you can, until you're not hiding information from yourself or others any longer. Some people are in situations where they cannot be honest. The only real way out is to leave the situation. A lot of people end up cultivating a network of friends outside of their crappy situations where they can be honest with each other and feel freer. 80% honesty is better than none. But you should be working on increasing that percentage by changing your circumstances, because being able to be honest with yourself and others is practically what it means to be happy. And as I said earlier, it's a prerequisite to self-actualization.
    - learc83 12y ago
      >80% honesty is better than none. I would agree that 80% is better than 0% honesty. My problem is not with honesty, it's with the goal of 100% honesty. I believe it's neither possible, nor desirable in the world we live in. In some situations I value politeness and brevity over honesty, and there's nothing wrong with that. How does it help me or my Secret Santa to learn that I'm displeased with her gift because I like dark chocolate more than milk chocolate? I think it's healthy to realize that there are situations where deception is the optimal solution.
  - forthefuture 12y ago
    You're projecting. While you may have trouble being embarrassed and caring about what other people think, some people don't. To say that your own problems mean that "100% honesty with other people is a joke" is impossibly closed minded.
    - learc83 12y ago
      > While you may have trouble being embarrassed and caring about what other people think, some people don't. Take the most confident self assured person you can find, and I can guarantee they are self-conscious about something. I refuse to believe that anyone has transcended so far above petty human concerns that they don't care what other people think at all...about anything. Sure some people care less than others, but this transcendent person would have to be a complete narcissist. That being said, the story of being embarrassed was just an example of information you can posses that you don't want other people to know. It's very likely you hold at least a few opinions that would cause you pretty serious harm if you voiced them, even if they don't embarrass you. Paul Graham wrote an essay a while back that hypothesized that everyone has opinions like this. >To say that your own problems mean that "100% honesty with other people is a joke" is impossibly closed minded. If you've deceived yourself into thinking you are 100% honest with anyone, then you're being dishonest with yourself.

by learc83 12y ago

vinceguidry 12y ago

> You're always going to have information that you don't want other people to know. There is no exception. If someone asks you something that you don't want to tell them, tell them you don't want to tell them that information. You do not have to be dishonest in order to not tell someone something, nor do you need silly rules. You can do that in an honest and straightforward fashion.

learc83 12y ago
That doesn't always work because simply not answering a question can reveal information that you don't want shared. When I was in middle school my mom cut my hair to save money. I was embarrassed by this. I dreaded people asking me questions about my haircut because I didn't want to tell them my mom cut it, but I didn't want to lie about where I got it cut. If someone asked me where I got my hair cut and I respond with "I don't want to talk about it", that answer would have revealed just as much sensitive information. I started changing my behavior to avoid this question--getting my hair cut at the beginning of a long break, so I could avoid people right after it was cut when they were most likely to ask. All I was doing was finding new ways to hide information. Now the obvious solution would have been to stop worrying about what other people thought. But I couldn't do that. We all have information like this, and we can be honest with ourselves and realize that 100% honesty with other people is a joke, or we can try to come up with other means to keep the information hidden that we think are morally superior to direct deception.
- vinceguidry 12y ago
  It's practically impossible to do this as a kid. You just don't know what or how to be honest, you don't have enough experience to be able to tell the difference. But you can and should try to do this as an adult, as much as you can, until you're not hiding information from yourself or others any longer. Some people are in situations where they cannot be honest. The only real way out is to leave the situation. A lot of people end up cultivating a network of friends outside of their crappy situations where they can be honest with each other and feel freer. 80% honesty is better than none. But you should be working on increasing that percentage by changing your circumstances, because being able to be honest with yourself and others is practically what it means to be happy. And as I said earlier, it's a prerequisite to self-actualization.
  - learc83 12y ago
    >80% honesty is better than none. I would agree that 80% is better than 0% honesty. My problem is not with honesty, it's with the goal of 100% honesty. I believe it's neither possible, nor desirable in the world we live in. In some situations I value politeness and brevity over honesty, and there's nothing wrong with that. How does it help me or my Secret Santa to learn that I'm displeased with her gift because I like dark chocolate more than milk chocolate? I think it's healthy to realize that there are situations where deception is the optimal solution.
- forthefuture 12y ago
  You're projecting. While you may have trouble being embarrassed and caring about what other people think, some people don't. To say that your own problems mean that "100% honesty with other people is a joke" is impossibly closed minded.
  - learc83 12y ago
    > While you may have trouble being embarrassed and caring about what other people think, some people don't. Take the most confident self assured person you can find, and I can guarantee they are self-conscious about something. I refuse to believe that anyone has transcended so far above petty human concerns that they don't care what other people think at all...about anything. Sure some people care less than others, but this transcendent person would have to be a complete narcissist. That being said, the story of being embarrassed was just an example of information you can posses that you don't want other people to know. It's very likely you hold at least a few opinions that would cause you pretty serious harm if you voiced them, even if they don't embarrass you. Paul Graham wrote an essay a while back that hypothesized that everyone has opinions like this. >To say that your own problems mean that "100% honesty with other people is a joke" is impossibly closed minded. If you've deceived yourself into thinking you are 100% honest with anyone, then you're being dishonest with yourself.