4 ms·

OP should consider this a good lesson (and one that I learned going through an acquisition); unless you're a founder, you cannot control "the deal". Unless you

by aantix 12y ago

OP should consider this a good lesson (and one that I learned going through an acquisition); unless you're a founder, you cannot control "the deal". Unless you're in the room when the chips are (re)divvied up, you have to trust someone else to advocate for you. And after tolling away for a few years, trading your life for the promise of a better future through being acquired, ultimately you end up in a shitty position. Don't be diluted in thinking the founders will "take care of everyone". Your only leverage in the end is to walk away (and try and blow up the deal or company, if you're that critical). And if you do walk and they don't stop you and counter offer, you probably weren't going to get anything anyway.

smt88 12y ago
> and try and blow up the deal or company Never do that. Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit. The business world is often about shoveling shit. People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- pound 12y ago
  yes, it's expected that you'll never do or say anything bad about past jobs(/companies/environments/people). But other side of this status quo is enabling all the assholes to be assholes and just helping them to continue behaving/acting like they do. that's a bit offtopic though.
  - Frondo 12y ago
    This type of withholding of information prevents others from making informed choices. "Don't burn your bridges" implies that these are bridges worth preserving--sometimes they aren't, and you're doing others a favor by letting them know.
- aantix 12y ago
  >Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit. Don't buy this fud. There's nothing illegal about walking away from a shitty deal. Whatever your motives just plainly state "this deal no longer makes sense for me". If you're a great engineer, then have some self respect, and walk away from a shitty deal. Go somewhere else where they respect the people that build value. And if you aren't a great engineer, you weren't going to get anything anyways, so go somewhere that will raise your game and better positions you for the future. >People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges There's a big difference between being bitter on a daily basis vs coming to terms with your past three years that are basically only going to net you an extra 100K (which you could easily get hustling in a few months consulting in SV). Think deliberately about what you're toiling away for. An extra 20K? An extra 100K? REALLY? All the extra weekends for years is worth that? Get mad at yourself. Demand more. And if they deny you, walk, and position yourself better next time.
  - smt88 12y ago
    First, I was against doing intentional harm. I absolutely think s/he should walk away, but making enemies doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some. Second, you seem not to understand the difference between "breaking the law" and "getting sued". Intentionally screwing over a company can be both legal and lead to a lawsuit that you end up losing.
    - aantix 12y ago
      1) You are critical to the company's success yet.. 2) They don't want to compensate you to your liking.. 3) So you walk. Yes, this is meant to intentionally hurt the company with the only lever that you have (your skill set and institutional knowledge). You working for this company costs you opportunities elsewhere. You're convincing yourself to stay because it "doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some." Your vague fears are holding you back. But if we get rid of these vague fears, here's what we know is certain: 1) You're critical to the success of the company. 2) But you're not going to be compensated to your liking 3) And you're costing yourself other opportunities by sticking around. Quit being scared, look them straight in the eye, and say "I am walking unless I get X,Y,Z." If they say no, then kindly resign and don't look back. Bring on the lawsuit (highly doubtful).
- mooreds 12y ago
  aantix: "Don't buy this fud" I think that smt88 was referring to trying to blow up the company, which I agree is bad juju. That doesn't mean OP shouldn't walk (as fast as possible) out of there if he or she isn't taken care of.
  - aantix 12y ago
    >blow up the company I meant this in the context of you're a critical engineer, and by leaving, you leave the company handicapped. You're critical to their success, but yet you don't feel like they're looking out for you. Walk.
- jnbiche 12y ago
  > People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges. Walking away from a bad deal isn't about getting revenge, it's about looking out for yourself (because no one else is).
ansible 12y ago
> Don't be diluted in thinking the founders will "take care of everyone". The normal phrase is "...deluded in thinking...", but in this case, "diluted" is probably appropriate. I am amused. Staying on topic... If you've got any significant stake in the company, you do have an interest in any deals being made. Sometimes it is the case that the current shares will be diluted so that the new investment can be accepted. It depends on how much was reserved at the start. So you may have been holding stock that was worth 5% of the company, but after the investment it could now be less. It really depends on how the deal was structured (how much for how much basically). You may not (as a non-founder) have a say in the terms of the deal, but you need to be kept informed. I've seen cases where the founders will dilute themselves, but not the smaller holders, to try to be fair to them, but that doesn't always happen. Maybe its time to read up on your corporations by-laws, which may spell out how and when they have to notify you of these sorts of changes.

by aantix 12y ago

smt88 12y ago

> and try and blow up the deal or company Never do that. Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit. The business world is often about shoveling shit. People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
pound 12y ago
yes, it's expected that you'll never do or say anything bad about past jobs(/companies/environments/people). But other side of this status quo is enabling all the assholes to be assholes and just helping them to continue behaving/acting like they do. that's a bit offtopic though.
- Frondo 12y ago
  This type of withholding of information prevents others from making informed choices. "Don't burn your bridges" implies that these are bridges worth preserving--sometimes they aren't, and you're doing others a favor by letting them know.
aantix 12y ago
>Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit. Don't buy this fud. There's nothing illegal about walking away from a shitty deal. Whatever your motives just plainly state "this deal no longer makes sense for me". If you're a great engineer, then have some self respect, and walk away from a shitty deal. Go somewhere else where they respect the people that build value. And if you aren't a great engineer, you weren't going to get anything anyways, so go somewhere that will raise your game and better positions you for the future. >People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges There's a big difference between being bitter on a daily basis vs coming to terms with your past three years that are basically only going to net you an extra 100K (which you could easily get hustling in a few months consulting in SV). Think deliberately about what you're toiling away for. An extra 20K? An extra 100K? REALLY? All the extra weekends for years is worth that? Get mad at yourself. Demand more. And if they deny you, walk, and position yourself better next time.
- smt88 12y ago
  First, I was against doing intentional harm. I absolutely think s/he should walk away, but making enemies doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some. Second, you seem not to understand the difference between "breaking the law" and "getting sued". Intentionally screwing over a company can be both legal and lead to a lawsuit that you end up losing.
  - aantix 12y ago
    1) You are critical to the company's success yet.. 2) They don't want to compensate you to your liking.. 3) So you walk. Yes, this is meant to intentionally hurt the company with the only lever that you have (your skill set and institutional knowledge). You working for this company costs you opportunities elsewhere. You're convincing yourself to stay because it "doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some." Your vague fears are holding you back. But if we get rid of these vague fears, here's what we know is certain: 1) You're critical to the success of the company. 2) But you're not going to be compensated to your liking 3) And you're costing yourself other opportunities by sticking around. Quit being scared, look them straight in the eye, and say "I am walking unless I get X,Y,Z." If they say no, then kindly resign and don't look back. Bring on the lawsuit (highly doubtful).
mooreds 12y ago
aantix: "Don't buy this fud" I think that smt88 was referring to trying to blow up the company, which I agree is bad juju. That doesn't mean OP shouldn't walk (as fast as possible) out of there if he or she isn't taken care of.
- aantix 12y ago
  >blow up the company I meant this in the context of you're a critical engineer, and by leaving, you leave the company handicapped. You're critical to their success, but yet you don't feel like they're looking out for you. Walk.
jnbiche 12y ago
> People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges. Walking away from a bad deal isn't about getting revenge, it's about looking out for yourself (because no one else is).

ansible 12y ago

> Don't be diluted in thinking the founders will "take care of everyone". The normal phrase is "...deluded in thinking...", but in this case, "diluted" is probably appropriate. I am amused. Staying on topic... If you've got any significant stake in the company, you do have an interest in any deals being made. Sometimes it is the case that the current shares will be diluted so that the new investment can be accepted. It depends on how much was reserved at the start. So you may have been holding stock that was worth 5% of the company, but after the investment it could now be less. It really depends on how the deal was structured (how much for how much basically). You may not (as a non-founder) have a say in the terms of the deal, but you need to be kept informed. I've seen cases where the founders will dilute themselves, but not the smaller holders, to try to be fair to them, but that doesn't always happen. Maybe its time to read up on your corporations by-laws, which may spell out how and when they have to notify you of these sorts of changes.