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This blog post is worryingly vague about anything of concrete value for users. It suggests a large reengineering effort without any idea of what they really wan

This blog post is worryingly vague about anything of concrete value for users. It suggests a large reengineering effort without any idea of what they really want to achieve. For example, one of the blog posts it links to, they introduce the new VAT manual https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-government-and-public-bodies https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-government-and-... vs old http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatgpbmanual/index.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatgpbmanual/index.htm It's identical, except for a modified stylesheet. This may be 'unapologetically unifying and simplifying the experience of interacting with government', but this is not very much to show for all the time that has been spent on GDS.

Someone1234 12y ago
> It's identical, except for a modified stylesheet. They're taking legacy sites and modernising them. They aren't re-writing HMRC's VAT manual and never claimed they were. You call it identical, but they've altered the underlying HTML layout and change the stylesheet to make it work better in modern browsers and made it easier to interact with using touch devices. That was their entire spec. That is their job. They've done their job. And while the content is "identical" by design, they fixed the part that was broken: bad markup and poor styling. PS - The old site looks absolutely terrible in Chrome 40. It "works" but I need to zoom to 200%, and with a touch device I keep hitting the wrong link because they're so close together.
- Spearchucker 12y ago
  "That was their entire spec. That is their job. They've done their job." The 25 exemplars say otherwise. They're about process re-engineering, technology modernisation and legacy integration. And they're also nowhere near complete (only 9 are live[1]). [1] https://www.gov.uk/transformation https://www.gov.uk/transformation
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    I could have worded that quoted section better. People have been complaining that some legacy documents and manuals weren't available on the new gov.uk site. So now they've started bringing them over, updating them to work in modern browsers and on touch devices, so in this context their only spec was to make that content available on the new site. In the larger context, yes, they've been doing some actual redevelopment. But how do you re-develop a HMRC manual? Heck up until a few years ago it was only available as a PDF(!). Even the old site was a marked improvement, and this one just keeps that document pleasantly available for the future.
  - Alphasite_ 12y ago
    This would come under legacy integration I'd assume.
- vitriol83 12y ago
  GDS claim to be 'leading the digital transformation of government'. If their spec is to perform routine modernisation of websites, then this hype is completely unwarranted.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    I'm just going to roll my eyes at that. Seems like you have an axe to grind for some reason and your complaints are so petty I'm done talking to you about the topic. You want to be unhappy, fine, be unhappy.
    - vitriol83 12y ago
      I like gov.uk. However I think they are overselling the value of centralising and modernising existing government websites, which are generally speaking quite good (albeit perhaps not on an ipad).
  - vertex-four 12y ago
    In this case, the format of the documentation provided by HMRC is legally important. gov.uk's remit isn't to get the law changed, it's to improve digital services wherever possible - and in this case, all they can really do is integrate it into the existing site.
- vertex-four 12y ago
  And, of course, this is all integrated into gov.uk - using much of the backend infrastructure, and integrating into the gov.uk search system. This is, as you say, the entity which has been put in charge of publishing data, continuing to take over data publishing roles from internal departments throughout Government.

Someone1234 12y ago

> It's identical, except for a modified stylesheet. They're taking legacy sites and modernising them. They aren't re-writing HMRC's VAT manual and never claimed they were. You call it identical, but they've altered the underlying HTML layout and change the stylesheet to make it work better in modern browsers and made it easier to interact with using touch devices. That was their entire spec. That is their job. They've done their job. And while the content is "identical" by design, they fixed the part that was broken: bad markup and poor styling. PS - The old site looks absolutely terrible in Chrome 40. It "works" but I need to zoom to 200%, and with a touch device I keep hitting the wrong link because they're so close together.

Spearchucker 12y ago
"That was their entire spec. That is their job. They've done their job." The 25 exemplars say otherwise. They're about process re-engineering, technology modernisation and legacy integration. And they're also nowhere near complete (only 9 are live[1]). [1] https://www.gov.uk/transformation https://www.gov.uk/transformation
- Someone1234 12y ago
  I could have worded that quoted section better. People have been complaining that some legacy documents and manuals weren't available on the new gov.uk site. So now they've started bringing them over, updating them to work in modern browsers and on touch devices, so in this context their only spec was to make that content available on the new site. In the larger context, yes, they've been doing some actual redevelopment. But how do you re-develop a HMRC manual? Heck up until a few years ago it was only available as a PDF(!). Even the old site was a marked improvement, and this one just keeps that document pleasantly available for the future.
- Alphasite_ 12y ago
  This would come under legacy integration I'd assume.
vitriol83 12y ago
GDS claim to be 'leading the digital transformation of government'. If their spec is to perform routine modernisation of websites, then this hype is completely unwarranted.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  I'm just going to roll my eyes at that. Seems like you have an axe to grind for some reason and your complaints are so petty I'm done talking to you about the topic. You want to be unhappy, fine, be unhappy.
  - vitriol83 12y ago
    I like gov.uk. However I think they are overselling the value of centralising and modernising existing government websites, which are generally speaking quite good (albeit perhaps not on an ipad).
- vertex-four 12y ago
  In this case, the format of the documentation provided by HMRC is legally important. gov.uk's remit isn't to get the law changed, it's to improve digital services wherever possible - and in this case, all they can really do is integrate it into the existing site.
vertex-four 12y ago
And, of course, this is all integrated into gov.uk - using much of the backend infrastructure, and integrating into the gov.uk search system. This is, as you say, the entity which has been put in charge of publishing data, continuing to take over data publishing roles from internal departments throughout Government.