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Since it seems we're going down this path regardless, I sincerely hope the Conservancy sends a loud, clear message that they attempted to resolve this issue ami

Since it seems we're going down this path regardless, I sincerely hope the Conservancy sends a loud, clear message that they attempted to resolve this issue amicably and reasonably. We must create the impression that violating the GPL is punishable, but only as an absolute last resort. We need to come out of this looking rational, fair, and helpful: our first goal is compliance, not litigation. The Conservancy has good people and provides valuable services to the F/OSS community. I trust they've weighed these considerations before deciding to act.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Is the GPL a contract? What is the 'punishment' possible? I thought civil suits could only result in money for damages. For instance, its not possible to make VMware do anything; just to fine them. Its not clear how much money, nor clear what damages occurred. How does this usually play out?
- belovedeagle 12y ago
  > Is the GPL a contract? (IANAL) The GPL is a license, which is similar to but different than a contract. It says "you may use my IP under these circumstances (and I can't sue you even if I change my mind)". If one "violates" a license, one is simply using IP without permission. Incorporating GPL'd code contrary to its terms (and with no alternative license from the IP owners) is no different than copying a chapter or three from a book and releasing it as your own.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > The GPL is a license, which is similar to but different than a contract. "license" is an overlapping category to "contract". Some licenses are also contracts, some licenses are gratuitous. Anything that gives the receiver permission to do something that the issuer has the exclusive right to control (such as, in the GPL, the right to do things which are exclusive to the copyright holder under copyright law) is a license, whether something is a contract depends on whether there is offer, acceptance, mutual consideration, etc.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Is the GPL a contract? It may or may not be; I think its usually seen as a gratuitous license, but I've seen some argument that it is a contract, and which it is may vary by jurisdiction. > I thought civil suits could only result in money for damages. This is inaccurate. > For instance, its not possible to make VMware do anything; just to fine them. Civil suits can result in orders for specific performance of duties under a contract, they can result in money damages, and they can result in permanent injunctions and other measures that mandate or constrain behavior of the parties. Money damages are the most common thing in civil suits, but not the only possible outcome. (And, of course, the possible outcomes and what the rules are for them all vary by jurisdiction.)
jra_samba 12y ago
Read the Conservancy FAQ: http://sfconservancy.org/linux-compliance/vmware-lawsuit-faq.html http://sfconservancy.org/linux-compliance/vmware-lawsuit-faq... Contacts and attempts to resolve this amicably with VMware have been going on since 2012.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

Is the GPL a contract? What is the 'punishment' possible? I thought civil suits could only result in money for damages. For instance, its not possible to make VMware do anything; just to fine them. Its not clear how much money, nor clear what damages occurred. How does this usually play out?

belovedeagle 12y ago
> Is the GPL a contract? (IANAL) The GPL is a license, which is similar to but different than a contract. It says "you may use my IP under these circumstances (and I can't sue you even if I change my mind)". If one "violates" a license, one is simply using IP without permission. Incorporating GPL'd code contrary to its terms (and with no alternative license from the IP owners) is no different than copying a chapter or three from a book and releasing it as your own.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > The GPL is a license, which is similar to but different than a contract. "license" is an overlapping category to "contract". Some licenses are also contracts, some licenses are gratuitous. Anything that gives the receiver permission to do something that the issuer has the exclusive right to control (such as, in the GPL, the right to do things which are exclusive to the copyright holder under copyright law) is a license, whether something is a contract depends on whether there is offer, acceptance, mutual consideration, etc.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Is the GPL a contract? It may or may not be; I think its usually seen as a gratuitous license, but I've seen some argument that it is a contract, and which it is may vary by jurisdiction. > I thought civil suits could only result in money for damages. This is inaccurate. > For instance, its not possible to make VMware do anything; just to fine them. Civil suits can result in orders for specific performance of duties under a contract, they can result in money damages, and they can result in permanent injunctions and other measures that mandate or constrain behavior of the parties. Money damages are the most common thing in civil suits, but not the only possible outcome. (And, of course, the possible outcomes and what the rules are for them all vary by jurisdiction.)

jra_samba 12y ago

Read the Conservancy FAQ: http://sfconservancy.org/linux-compliance/vmware-lawsuit-faq.html http://sfconservancy.org/linux-compliance/vmware-lawsuit-faq... Contacts and attempts to resolve this amicably with VMware have been going on since 2012.