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At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I dislike the ad crazy "news" sites that bombard you

by dpweb 12y ago

At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I dislike the ad crazy "news" sites that bombard you and destroy the entire user-experience, but I would equate a not-too-intrusive advertisement as being not an obnoxious thing, and something that allows you to get something, not totally for free, but at the cost of a second of your attention. I'm sure popular ad-supported sites would be not so popular if suddenly put behind paywalls. Much much less seen. About donations, I would look to the experience of those disappointed folks who hoped to recoup some costs waiting for donations. Also, I would equate begging for donations and ads. I love wikipedia for instance but the donation begging can be just as obnoxious as intrusive ads.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
> At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I believe this is true - even if annoying, or unsustainable, we owe something to the fact that people at least believe they can make money this way. There are however two problems with ads. You touched on one of them - intrusiveness/user experience. But there is another one - many ads you see are made to trick you into spending money on something you don't need and/or sell you something suboptimal (E.g. that camera you just saw? It's probably not a good fit for you, but it's definitely the one that the vendor can make most money on selling) and/or just lie and try to scam you. The goals of advertisers and users are not aligned, and until the former stop trying to scam me, I will continue to block ads. > Also, I would equate begging for donations and ads. I love wikipedia for instance but the donation begging can be just as obnoxious as intrusive ads. Can't disagree with that. In case of Wikipedia, their obnoxiousness actually makes me want to not donate on purpose, and I'd probably do that if it wasn't as valuable for me as it is.
- _delirium 12y ago
  > I believe this is true - even if annoying, or unsustainable, we owe something to the fact that people at least believe they can make money this way. I think it's a mixed bag on that front: we owe some good sites, but also a big part of web spam, to the fact that people believe they can make money through "internet content creation". Beyond the outright spam (content farms, linkspam, etc.) there's also a lot of really low-quality content put online primarily motivated by a hope of pulling in ad revenue.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Yes please. I say, good riddance.
Mahn 12y ago
You are looking at this from the point of view of the user (where ads are not a big deal in exchange of consuming the content for free), but step for a moment in the content creators' shoes. While Ads can still be profitable, they grow less and less efective year after year; almost every other monetization model possible is superior for an internet product nowadays. You can easily run a blog with millions of hits per month and still not make enough to work on it full time. It's shitty if you are the content creator and can only monetize via ads.
- greedoshotlast 12y ago
  You are 100% correct, in fact the margin keeps shrinking. A good example would be YouTube where content providers make $6 for every 1000 views. Your cut as a content provider will keep shrinking.
x0x0 12y ago
Except non-awful advertising doesn't appear to be a stable equilibrium. Inventory is essentially infinite; publishers see ever-declining margins; we see ever more intrusive advertising. Plus the usual stories about people getting what they want -- lots and lots of clickbait. Yuck.
lifeformed 12y ago
> At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I look at that more of a necessary evil, kind of like the pollution from the industrial revolution. It got us this far, but now it's time to look for sustainable ways to make use of this growth.
- aorloff 12y ago
  On the contrary. Regardless of what people SAY they want when discussing ads on forums, when faced with the choice of getting content for free with ads, or paying and not seeing ads, people vote with their mouse and choose free with ads. One might say that advertising has been a hugely POPULAR way to get awesome free services on the internet.
  - delsalk 12y ago
    I don't think any normal internet user would consider ads in that way, only the lesser of two evils. People "voting with their mice" and choosing to install ad blockers isn't really a ringing endorsement.
saraid216 12y ago
I would prefer to look upon advertising as a stepping stone. We needed the advertising ecosystem when the Internet had a bunch of neat ideas and didn't really know how to monetize any of it. Now we're starting to get far more robust payments systems and a more solid understanding of how to offer value add in exchange for money. Advertising was a huge boon while we transitioned from a wilderness state through a frontier phase, but we're past that now; I really hope that we progressively step down the advertising we do in favor of microtransactions of all kinds. > About donations, I would look to the experience of those disappointed folks who hoped to recoup some costs waiting for donations. As a counterpoint, there are definitely content creators on Patreon whose fans are donating enough on a regular basis for them to have a steady income. I haven't really looked through a large number of them, but the ones I pitch into have a pretty tidy monthly amount: not as much as I make as a programmer, but certainly a living.
RaRic 12y ago
When I visited wikipedia today, there was a small widget that let me set up a monthly payment. I have never donated before, but I liked the idea of a small monthly amount so I signed up for 3 dollars. Hopefully, they get to keep more of that money by cutting out Google. Bonus: no tracking.

by dpweb 12y ago

TeMPOraL 12y ago

> At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I believe this is true - even if annoying, or unsustainable, we owe something to the fact that people at least believe they can make money this way. There are however two problems with ads. You touched on one of them - intrusiveness/user experience. But there is another one - many ads you see are made to trick you into spending money on something you don't need and/or sell you something suboptimal (E.g. that camera you just saw? It's probably not a good fit for you, but it's definitely the one that the vendor can make most money on selling) and/or just lie and try to scam you. The goals of advertisers and users are not aligned, and until the former stop trying to scam me, I will continue to block ads. > Also, I would equate begging for donations and ads. I love wikipedia for instance but the donation begging can be just as obnoxious as intrusive ads. Can't disagree with that. In case of Wikipedia, their obnoxiousness actually makes me want to not donate on purpose, and I'd probably do that if it wasn't as valuable for me as it is.

_delirium 12y ago
> I believe this is true - even if annoying, or unsustainable, we owe something to the fact that people at least believe they can make money this way. I think it's a mixed bag on that front: we owe some good sites, but also a big part of web spam, to the fact that people believe they can make money through "internet content creation". Beyond the outright spam (content farms, linkspam, etc.) there's also a lot of really low-quality content put online primarily motivated by a hope of pulling in ad revenue.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Yes please. I say, good riddance.

Mahn 12y ago

You are looking at this from the point of view of the user (where ads are not a big deal in exchange of consuming the content for free), but step for a moment in the content creators' shoes. While Ads can still be profitable, they grow less and less efective year after year; almost every other monetization model possible is superior for an internet product nowadays. You can easily run a blog with millions of hits per month and still not make enough to work on it full time. It's shitty if you are the content creator and can only monetize via ads.

greedoshotlast 12y ago
You are 100% correct, in fact the margin keeps shrinking. A good example would be YouTube where content providers make $6 for every 1000 views. Your cut as a content provider will keep shrinking.

x0x0 12y ago

Except non-awful advertising doesn't appear to be a stable equilibrium. Inventory is essentially infinite; publishers see ever-declining margins; we see ever more intrusive advertising. Plus the usual stories about people getting what they want -- lots and lots of clickbait. Yuck.

lifeformed 12y ago

> At the risk of being an unpopular opinion, advertising has been a huge boon in the growth of the Internet. I look at that more of a necessary evil, kind of like the pollution from the industrial revolution. It got us this far, but now it's time to look for sustainable ways to make use of this growth.

aorloff 12y ago
On the contrary. Regardless of what people SAY they want when discussing ads on forums, when faced with the choice of getting content for free with ads, or paying and not seeing ads, people vote with their mouse and choose free with ads. One might say that advertising has been a hugely POPULAR way to get awesome free services on the internet.
- delsalk 12y ago
  I don't think any normal internet user would consider ads in that way, only the lesser of two evils. People "voting with their mice" and choosing to install ad blockers isn't really a ringing endorsement.

saraid216 12y ago

I would prefer to look upon advertising as a stepping stone. We needed the advertising ecosystem when the Internet had a bunch of neat ideas and didn't really know how to monetize any of it. Now we're starting to get far more robust payments systems and a more solid understanding of how to offer value add in exchange for money. Advertising was a huge boon while we transitioned from a wilderness state through a frontier phase, but we're past that now; I really hope that we progressively step down the advertising we do in favor of microtransactions of all kinds. > About donations, I would look to the experience of those disappointed folks who hoped to recoup some costs waiting for donations. As a counterpoint, there are definitely content creators on Patreon whose fans are donating enough on a regular basis for them to have a steady income. I haven't really looked through a large number of them, but the ones I pitch into have a pretty tidy monthly amount: not as much as I make as a programmer, but certainly a living.

RaRic 12y ago

When I visited wikipedia today, there was a small widget that let me set up a monthly payment. I have never donated before, but I liked the idea of a small monthly amount so I signed up for 3 dollars. Hopefully, they get to keep more of that money by cutting out Google. Bonus: no tracking.