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Speaking of scams and scam companies, I’m dealing with a company named MindJet, which makes a mind mapping program called MindManager, which I wanted to test ag

Speaking of scams and scam companies, I’m dealing with a company named MindJet, which makes a mind mapping program called MindManager, which I wanted to test against the open-source programs. BTW, the open-source programs are better, as one might expect. Before purchasing the software (to test) I contacted the company to ask about the software itself, as well as their refund policy. I was emailed back by Christian Walter, who said they offered a 30-day money back guarantee. I purchased the software, tried it, determined that it did not meet my needs, to put it nicely, and certainly was not something that was worth any money. Therefore, I emailed the company to request my refund. This is where the fun starts. When I requested my refund, Christian at MindJet effectively denied the request (in my opinion) and told me I would have to download a form, swear on it, sign it, and fax it to an international number. On the form it said all fields must be completed or else no refund. One of the fields was “Customer Number,” which it says is listed on your invoice. That is not true (at least not on the invoice I have, nor anywhere on "my" account on their website). The other part of their scam (that's what I call this kind of business practice) is that when you buy the product they throw in a “free” year of support. What they don’t tell you is that this is really a subscription for paid support, with the first year free, and that they will bill you annually starting next year unless you: (1) figure this out, (2) figure out how to opt out, and (3) do it in time. I’m still dealing with this MindJet issue, gathering info for a detailed blog post with screenshots. Tune in later to see how the story ends, if they refund me on their own or I have to dispute the charge with Mastercard (I’ve already met the requirements to dispute the charge and am just waiting to see what they will do). In meantime, I can tell you that, based on this experience (on its own and in comparison with every other company I have ever done business with), I consider MindJet a scam company. If their business practices are legal, they seem at least highly deceptive, tricky, and unethical (to me). Again, this is only my experience and opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

donw 17y ago
This is why when a customer asks for a refund, it's a lot easier to just give them one. Especially if you're a software company. You might lose a sale, and a few bucks, but that's nothing compared to the bad press and expense of chargebacks against your merchant account. If MindJet had just refunded Chris's money, no matter whether or not he is actually 'right', then this post, and the blog post that's likely to follow it, wouldn't even exist. The worst that Chris could say is, "I bought their software, it sucks, they... uh... gave me my money back. Those bastards." Being scammy just doesn't pay off, at least to my way of thinking.
robotrout 17y ago
I use Mindjet and have for years. They're not a "scam company". If anybody was scamming, it seems like it was you. Your obvious plan was to get the software, write a bad review of it, and then ask for your money back. You get an article for your blog with no financial impact to your wallet. Now, when that backfired, you're indignant. I have to say, I'm not feeling that sympathetic to your predicament.
- chris123 17y ago
  Wow robotrout, your thought process says a lot about your outlook on life and people, which says a lot about you. Could it be that I wanted to evaluate all of the mind mapping products on the market before deciding which one to go with? Is that not a what many people do before they make any major decision, which to me is what picking a new piece of business software is? Could it be that I did some initial research and came up with a short list of candidates (Freemind, XMind, Mindjet MindManager, Dropmind, and NovaMind)? Could it be that I have now concluded my evaluation and MindJet was not the product for me and I simply tried to exercise my money-back option? I am not "indignant," I am reporting facts, facts which, IMHO, mean "scam." If other customers who are eligible for refunds and want refunds are ok with having to fill out, swear to, sign, and fax a form to an international number to get that refund, then that's ok (for them). If they are ok with the refund request form saying they must supply a customer number from their invoice and there is no customer number on their invoice, fine. I'm just reporting those facts. Doesn't seem like a good policy to me, but if it's fine with you, fine. But don't get pissy and accusatory with me. Lastly, nothing has backfired. I will get my refund from them or through MasterCard chargeback. The reason I'm spending my time telling people about this situation is in case anyone finds it relevent in their dealings with MindJet or in how they handle refund policies and procedures, as a previous commenter stated. MY INITIAL QUESTION TO MINDJET: I am interested in your mind-mapping software, but it is expensive. Does it come with a money back guarantee? THEIR REPLY: When you purchase MindManager in the Mindjet online shop you can cancel your order within 30 days after the purchase. FOR THE RECORD robotrout's ORIGINAL COMMENT TO WHICH MY ABOVE REPLY IS DIRECTED: I use Mindjet and have for years. They're not a "scam company". If anybody was scamming, it seems like it was you. Your obvious plan was to get the software, write a bad review of it, and then ask for your money back. You get an article for your blog with no financial impact to your wallet. Now, when that backfired, you're indignant. I have to say, I'm not feeling that sympathetic to your predicament.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
Why bother with going back and forth? Just dispute it with Mastercard and move on.
- chris123 17y ago
  You raise a good point: Why not just take care of myself and move on and not care about anyone else, or if I care why raise a finger or expend an ounce of energy when it can't benefit me and could actually hurt me? If other people get ripped off, who cares, right? Heck, maybe even in some twisted way I benefit when other people get screwed. Relatively speaking, if they get screwed and I don't, I'm better off (some kind of reverse competition or whatever name has been given to it). For me, however, this "me, me, me" mentality is the core of what's wrong with America right now. There are too many people who only care about themselves, who won't spend a dime of their money or a second of their time to stand up for someone who can't do anything for them. Not so much here and in our community, which mostly has an abundance mentality and knows that it's not about what you can get, but what you can give, and do give. That is why I'm spending my time, opening myself up criticism, etc. I will get my money back regardless. It's $129, who cares, really. I've been through an IPO, made multiple successful real estate and stock investments, and done over a billion dollars in deals since 1999. Who the fuck cares? I quite that and moved to Europe in 2006 and haven't "worked" since. Again, who cares? Nobody. It doesn't matter. The point is not about money, it's about standing up for other people, people, who might not have the ability, time, energy, or whatever to stand up for themselves or anyone else. Heck, it's even about standing up for those "gotta look out for #1" types, I hope to help save them some money, too. More importantly and critically, I hope to help a few realize that the only way we can really change the world and make it a better place is by standing up for each other, helping each other, not ourselves. I also hope to give a company or manager or two a second thought about their business any shady business practices they are considering, help them realize that they will "get" more by acting ethically. You may call me a dreamer and an idealist, that I am, but I'm not the only one. And I hope to "always" believe that we can make positives differences in each others' lives. That's what it's about. Really. Yes, I hate getting ripped off (or feeling like I am getting ripped of, if it's more accurate). And I will not take it. I will suffer costs in excess of the rip off in order to benefit the community. I think the community benefits from better, more ethical and clear, business practices. I think by standing up here, I encourage that. Since I'm in full rant mode now, I'll close out with a few quotes that come to mind: Obama: "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." Yes, that's an updated version of Mohandas Gandhi's "Be the change (that you want to see in the world)." --------- NOFX: (this is a punk version of "First They Came"): First they put away the dealers, keep our kids safe and off the street. Then they put away the prostitutes, keep married men cloistered at home. Then they shooed away the bums, then they beat and bashed the queers, turned away asylum-seekers, fed us suspicions and fears. We didn’t raise our voice, we didn’t make a fuss. It’s funny there was no one left to notice when they came for us. --------- chrisco (me): Stand up for each other people, even if it's at cost to you, maybe even especially if it is a cost to you. This I do know the name of: "altruistic punishment." Lots of info on the web about that. One blog that comes to mind is Christopher Allen's "Life With Alacrity" -- see http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2005/03/dunbar_altruist.html http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2005/03/dunbar_altruist.html.

donw 17y ago

This is why when a customer asks for a refund, it's a lot easier to just give them one. Especially if you're a software company. You might lose a sale, and a few bucks, but that's nothing compared to the bad press and expense of chargebacks against your merchant account. If MindJet had just refunded Chris's money, no matter whether or not he is actually 'right', then this post, and the blog post that's likely to follow it, wouldn't even exist. The worst that Chris could say is, "I bought their software, it sucks, they... uh... gave me my money back. Those bastards." Being scammy just doesn't pay off, at least to my way of thinking.

robotrout 17y ago

I use Mindjet and have for years. They're not a "scam company". If anybody was scamming, it seems like it was you. Your obvious plan was to get the software, write a bad review of it, and then ask for your money back. You get an article for your blog with no financial impact to your wallet. Now, when that backfired, you're indignant. I have to say, I'm not feeling that sympathetic to your predicament.

chris123 17y ago
Wow robotrout, your thought process says a lot about your outlook on life and people, which says a lot about you. Could it be that I wanted to evaluate all of the mind mapping products on the market before deciding which one to go with? Is that not a what many people do before they make any major decision, which to me is what picking a new piece of business software is? Could it be that I did some initial research and came up with a short list of candidates (Freemind, XMind, Mindjet MindManager, Dropmind, and NovaMind)? Could it be that I have now concluded my evaluation and MindJet was not the product for me and I simply tried to exercise my money-back option? I am not "indignant," I am reporting facts, facts which, IMHO, mean "scam." If other customers who are eligible for refunds and want refunds are ok with having to fill out, swear to, sign, and fax a form to an international number to get that refund, then that's ok (for them). If they are ok with the refund request form saying they must supply a customer number from their invoice and there is no customer number on their invoice, fine. I'm just reporting those facts. Doesn't seem like a good policy to me, but if it's fine with you, fine. But don't get pissy and accusatory with me. Lastly, nothing has backfired. I will get my refund from them or through MasterCard chargeback. The reason I'm spending my time telling people about this situation is in case anyone finds it relevent in their dealings with MindJet or in how they handle refund policies and procedures, as a previous commenter stated. MY INITIAL QUESTION TO MINDJET: I am interested in your mind-mapping software, but it is expensive. Does it come with a money back guarantee? THEIR REPLY: When you purchase MindManager in the Mindjet online shop you can cancel your order within 30 days after the purchase. FOR THE RECORD robotrout's ORIGINAL COMMENT TO WHICH MY ABOVE REPLY IS DIRECTED: I use Mindjet and have for years. They're not a "scam company". If anybody was scamming, it seems like it was you. Your obvious plan was to get the software, write a bad review of it, and then ask for your money back. You get an article for your blog with no financial impact to your wallet. Now, when that backfired, you're indignant. I have to say, I'm not feeling that sympathetic to your predicament.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

Why bother with going back and forth? Just dispute it with Mastercard and move on.

chris123 17y ago
You raise a good point: Why not just take care of myself and move on and not care about anyone else, or if I care why raise a finger or expend an ounce of energy when it can't benefit me and could actually hurt me? If other people get ripped off, who cares, right? Heck, maybe even in some twisted way I benefit when other people get screwed. Relatively speaking, if they get screwed and I don't, I'm better off (some kind of reverse competition or whatever name has been given to it). For me, however, this "me, me, me" mentality is the core of what's wrong with America right now. There are too many people who only care about themselves, who won't spend a dime of their money or a second of their time to stand up for someone who can't do anything for them. Not so much here and in our community, which mostly has an abundance mentality and knows that it's not about what you can get, but what you can give, and do give. That is why I'm spending my time, opening myself up criticism, etc. I will get my money back regardless. It's $129, who cares, really. I've been through an IPO, made multiple successful real estate and stock investments, and done over a billion dollars in deals since 1999. Who the fuck cares? I quite that and moved to Europe in 2006 and haven't "worked" since. Again, who cares? Nobody. It doesn't matter. The point is not about money, it's about standing up for other people, people, who might not have the ability, time, energy, or whatever to stand up for themselves or anyone else. Heck, it's even about standing up for those "gotta look out for #1" types, I hope to help save them some money, too. More importantly and critically, I hope to help a few realize that the only way we can really change the world and make it a better place is by standing up for each other, helping each other, not ourselves. I also hope to give a company or manager or two a second thought about their business any shady business practices they are considering, help them realize that they will "get" more by acting ethically. You may call me a dreamer and an idealist, that I am, but I'm not the only one. And I hope to "always" believe that we can make positives differences in each others' lives. That's what it's about. Really. Yes, I hate getting ripped off (or feeling like I am getting ripped of, if it's more accurate). And I will not take it. I will suffer costs in excess of the rip off in order to benefit the community. I think the community benefits from better, more ethical and clear, business practices. I think by standing up here, I encourage that. Since I'm in full rant mode now, I'll close out with a few quotes that come to mind: Obama: "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." Yes, that's an updated version of Mohandas Gandhi's "Be the change (that you want to see in the world)." --------- NOFX: (this is a punk version of "First They Came"): First they put away the dealers, keep our kids safe and off the street. Then they put away the prostitutes, keep married men cloistered at home. Then they shooed away the bums, then they beat and bashed the queers, turned away asylum-seekers, fed us suspicions and fears. We didn’t raise our voice, we didn’t make a fuss. It’s funny there was no one left to notice when they came for us. --------- chrisco (me): Stand up for each other people, even if it's at cost to you, maybe even especially if it is a cost to you. This I do know the name of: "altruistic punishment." Lots of info on the web about that. One blog that comes to mind is Christopher Allen's "Life With Alacrity" -- see http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2005/03/dunbar_altruist.html http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2005/03/dunbar_altruist.html.