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I have specifically avoided angular because I feel like it's a monster in that you are so tied to learning and understanding it's proprietary system. I too have

I have specifically avoided angular because I feel like it's a monster in that you are so tied to learning and understanding it's proprietary system. I too have moved directly to react. Can anyone comment on how the skills learned by learning Angular can be applied any where else?

AlwaysBCoding 12y ago
You're 100% right. Once you're in Angular-land you are completely tied to the framework. You don't think about "how can I make X in my domain happen?" you think about "how do I make X in Angular happen". This coupled with the horrific Angular docs make it really tough to justify using from a productivity standpoint. I've moved to React as well and feel it's a 10x boost in productivity because I'm constantly thinking in my domain and not in a framework.
- vonklaus 12y ago
  I am a newer developer, and this is how I feel. I didn't think it was normal. I always had problems grokking the docs as they are obtuse and thin. Also, things I find straight forward to implement in JS seem laborious in NG. I am going to start learning react as well, and if you have any suggestions on how to get started, I would be appreciative of a few resources.
- solomone 12y ago
  It's not like anything you build in React is going to transfer over to another framework either. In fact, I've been to a lot of React talks and people mostly ask "how do I do X" in react. The last talk I went to they spent 10 mins talking about how you might make a spinner when data is loading. I think that's the nature of any framework.
  - AlwaysBCoding 12y ago
    No, it's different. React is a rendering engine, it's covers the final piece of your web app (rendering a data structure into DOM). But whatever you do to create the data structure that gets passed to React is up to you. This keeps most of your domain logic outside the context of React, you just use React to render data->DOM. So basically the API you have to learn is just Javascript, which most people know already and is easy to lookup answers to your questions. With Angular your domain logic exists in the context of the framework. i.e. if you ng-repeat something you can't just filter that collection with Javascript you have to use an ng-filter to do it which is a special Angular construct. So the API you have to learn to manipulate data isn't just Javascript it's Angular. And how does ng-filter work? Well, you're tied to the Angular docs to figure it out. The Angular docs are of particualary poor quality so this coupling turns into a really serious problem if you're trying to be productive. To me React vs. Angular isn't a matter of preference like Ruby vs. Python -- it's more like git vs. FTP where there is a clear right answer if you're trying to be productive in a team envrionment.
    - jhall1468 12y ago
      Sigh... this is such an annoying comparison. If you want to compare, compare React to Angular Directives since that's a valid argument. Your entire complaint is that full-stack front-end frameworks are bad and modular systems are good. It's great that you prefer modularity and the ability to mix and match tools. But stop pretending React vs Angular is a thing. It isn't. git vs FTP... just stop.
- bceagle 12y ago
  This will not be the case at all with Angular2. Most of the "angular" stuff will be in annotations and your code is going to be vanilla ES6 for the most part (well, with TypeScript). So, you actually are going to have a lot more freedom to mix and max other technologies. Also, FYI, the barrier in 1.x is not that high, either. There are many integrations between Angular and other frameworks (including React, FYI).
  - WalterSear 12y ago
    > There are many integrations between Angular and other frameworks (including React, FYI). IME, it's a shit show, and totally inappropriate for production code. It's the mating of wrong sized dogs in the park.
- mschulze 12y ago
  You can even use react components in angular directives so this is just not true.
at-fates-hands 12y ago
>>> I have specifically avoided angular because I feel like it's a monster in that you are so tied to learning and understanding it's proprietary system. I actually had to exact opposite feeling about Angular. I loved that it was a complete framework and I didn't have to mix and match several libraries to get the functionality I needed. Having said that, I've completely soured on Angular. From the big changes coming in 2.0, to not making this backwards compatible hasn't left me with any confidence they won't do this again in future releases. I've already moved to Ember and haven't had any issues yet.
jbergens 12y ago
Yes, some parts are just basic structuring. Breaking an application into services, knowing what parts are singletons and not and finding ways to communicate between parts. If AtScript/TypeScript is used more you can use those skills in any project using the same language. Other parts are specific to Angular.

AlwaysBCoding 12y ago

You're 100% right. Once you're in Angular-land you are completely tied to the framework. You don't think about "how can I make X in my domain happen?" you think about "how do I make X in Angular happen". This coupled with the horrific Angular docs make it really tough to justify using from a productivity standpoint. I've moved to React as well and feel it's a 10x boost in productivity because I'm constantly thinking in my domain and not in a framework.

vonklaus 12y ago
I am a newer developer, and this is how I feel. I didn't think it was normal. I always had problems grokking the docs as they are obtuse and thin. Also, things I find straight forward to implement in JS seem laborious in NG. I am going to start learning react as well, and if you have any suggestions on how to get started, I would be appreciative of a few resources.
solomone 12y ago
It's not like anything you build in React is going to transfer over to another framework either. In fact, I've been to a lot of React talks and people mostly ask "how do I do X" in react. The last talk I went to they spent 10 mins talking about how you might make a spinner when data is loading. I think that's the nature of any framework.
- AlwaysBCoding 12y ago
  No, it's different. React is a rendering engine, it's covers the final piece of your web app (rendering a data structure into DOM). But whatever you do to create the data structure that gets passed to React is up to you. This keeps most of your domain logic outside the context of React, you just use React to render data->DOM. So basically the API you have to learn is just Javascript, which most people know already and is easy to lookup answers to your questions. With Angular your domain logic exists in the context of the framework. i.e. if you ng-repeat something you can't just filter that collection with Javascript you have to use an ng-filter to do it which is a special Angular construct. So the API you have to learn to manipulate data isn't just Javascript it's Angular. And how does ng-filter work? Well, you're tied to the Angular docs to figure it out. The Angular docs are of particualary poor quality so this coupling turns into a really serious problem if you're trying to be productive. To me React vs. Angular isn't a matter of preference like Ruby vs. Python -- it's more like git vs. FTP where there is a clear right answer if you're trying to be productive in a team envrionment.
  - jhall1468 12y ago
    Sigh... this is such an annoying comparison. If you want to compare, compare React to Angular Directives since that's a valid argument. Your entire complaint is that full-stack front-end frameworks are bad and modular systems are good. It's great that you prefer modularity and the ability to mix and match tools. But stop pretending React vs Angular is a thing. It isn't. git vs FTP... just stop.
bceagle 12y ago
This will not be the case at all with Angular2. Most of the "angular" stuff will be in annotations and your code is going to be vanilla ES6 for the most part (well, with TypeScript). So, you actually are going to have a lot more freedom to mix and max other technologies. Also, FYI, the barrier in 1.x is not that high, either. There are many integrations between Angular and other frameworks (including React, FYI).
- WalterSear 12y ago
  > There are many integrations between Angular and other frameworks (including React, FYI). IME, it's a shit show, and totally inappropriate for production code. It's the mating of wrong sized dogs in the park.
mschulze 12y ago
You can even use react components in angular directives so this is just not true.

at-fates-hands 12y ago

>>> I have specifically avoided angular because I feel like it's a monster in that you are so tied to learning and understanding it's proprietary system. I actually had to exact opposite feeling about Angular. I loved that it was a complete framework and I didn't have to mix and match several libraries to get the functionality I needed. Having said that, I've completely soured on Angular. From the big changes coming in 2.0, to not making this backwards compatible hasn't left me with any confidence they won't do this again in future releases. I've already moved to Ember and haven't had any issues yet.

jbergens 12y ago

Yes, some parts are just basic structuring. Breaking an application into services, knowing what parts are singletons and not and finding ways to communicate between parts. If AtScript/TypeScript is used more you can use those skills in any project using the same language. Other parts are specific to Angular.