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>and forcing them to choose between having a family or a successful career This is not true. There are always trade-offs in life, even for men. Almost everythi

>and forcing them to choose between having a family or a successful career This is not true. There are always trade-offs in life, even for men. Almost everything has an opportunity cost. You focus on your family the career suffers, focus on your career family suffers. The same is true of men except they don't have a biological clock. >Add on top of this any sort of general sexist behavior that is rampant in offices like unwanted advances, inappropriate touching, etc. I hear this, but have honestly only ever been present for a single awkward comment in my 10+ year career. I think "unwanted advances" is going to be a continual problem because most of the guys in tech are socially awkward, unnattractive nerds, so any advance they make is going to be by definition, unwanted. However these guys have no way of knowing that before-hand, unless they make "nobody wants me" their default assumption. >they face all sorts of discrimination and sexism that men don't even realize they're doing this is what bothers me the most, there is no concept of "mens rea" in issues of discrimination, you are guilty even if you try not to be. People choose to be offended or not, that's a voluntary choice. So if your SO is offended by people who have no intention to commit offence or cause harm, then what can I say? What can they do? Everybody will have to walk on eggshells around your SO so they don't offend her I guess. Doesn't sound like the problem is with "tech" to be honest.

throwawayaway 12y ago
The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority is eternal vigilance against overstepping the mark. Sure it's inconvenient, but politeness doesn't cost much effort. Eggshells is a good way of putting it. If you or anyone you see steps over the line, get an apology out there and discuss it and move on. Over time what constitutes a transgression seems to get more minor and trivial in my eyes, but until we're at a star trek utopian standard of living, progressing towards it is worthwhile in my view. Of course if somebody is taking the piss and claiming oppression when there isn't any, they deserve to be called out on that too. In the poster's comment to which you are replying I do think his SO's grievances are valid.
- ManFromUranus 12y ago
  >The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority I disagree with this assertion that I belong to an oppressive majority, or that the majority is oppressive. >Sure it's inconvenient, but politeness doesn't cost much effort. Eggshells is a good way of putting it. Tolerance goes both ways. Why should 100 people modify their behaviour so that 1 person doesn't get offended, when 1 person could modify simply raise their threshold for offence, and save a 100 people a lot of hassle. >If you or anyone you see steps over the line There is no way to know what or where the line is. The line is totally subjective and unique to each individual. So it would simply be easier and less risky (remaining employed wise) to avoid interacting with the person than spend the time to learn how to avoid triggering their offence reaction. I guarantee the path of least resistance is the one that will be followed.
  - throwawayaway 12y ago
    100 people should modify their behaviour if they are being impolite and unprofessional. The line is subjective I agree. Being polite and courteous rather than unprofessional works best for everyone. It's pretty easy too. The path of least resistance is being followed and we are all the worse for it. Also the opinions you are expressing are very much those belonging to a member of the oppressive majority, as far as I am concerned. 100 to 1? Oppressive majority? Fairly cut and dried.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  >The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority That sure sounds like most nerds I know - we are just so high on the social scale, even pop stars wish they were us. And let me put it this way: I have no intention of walking on eggshells my entire career, never knowing when I hurt some delicate being. I don't for a second believe women are that delicate (there are far too many women in combat for that to be the case) but if they are as delicate as I read your comment to assume they are then they don't belong in computing - the compiler will not care how much it hurts your feelings.
  - 12y ago

throwawayaway 12y ago

The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority is eternal vigilance against overstepping the mark. Sure it's inconvenient, but politeness doesn't cost much effort. Eggshells is a good way of putting it. If you or anyone you see steps over the line, get an apology out there and discuss it and move on. Over time what constitutes a transgression seems to get more minor and trivial in my eyes, but until we're at a star trek utopian standard of living, progressing towards it is worthwhile in my view. Of course if somebody is taking the piss and claiming oppression when there isn't any, they deserve to be called out on that too. In the poster's comment to which you are replying I do think his SO's grievances are valid.

ManFromUranus 12y ago
>The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority I disagree with this assertion that I belong to an oppressive majority, or that the majority is oppressive. >Sure it's inconvenient, but politeness doesn't cost much effort. Eggshells is a good way of putting it. Tolerance goes both ways. Why should 100 people modify their behaviour so that 1 person doesn't get offended, when 1 person could modify simply raise their threshold for offence, and save a 100 people a lot of hassle. >If you or anyone you see steps over the line There is no way to know what or where the line is. The line is totally subjective and unique to each individual. So it would simply be easier and less risky (remaining employed wise) to avoid interacting with the person than spend the time to learn how to avoid triggering their offence reaction. I guarantee the path of least resistance is the one that will be followed.
- throwawayaway 12y ago
  100 people should modify their behaviour if they are being impolite and unprofessional. The line is subjective I agree. Being polite and courteous rather than unprofessional works best for everyone. It's pretty easy too. The path of least resistance is being followed and we are all the worse for it. Also the opinions you are expressing are very much those belonging to a member of the oppressive majority, as far as I am concerned. 100 to 1? Oppressive majority? Fairly cut and dried.
tomjen3 12y ago
>The price of the privilege and prestige of being a member of the oppressive majority That sure sounds like most nerds I know - we are just so high on the social scale, even pop stars wish they were us. And let me put it this way: I have no intention of walking on eggshells my entire career, never knowing when I hurt some delicate being. I don't for a second believe women are that delicate (there are far too many women in combat for that to be the case) but if they are as delicate as I read your comment to assume they are then they don't belong in computing - the compiler will not care how much it hurts your feelings.
- 12y ago