4 ms·

This is the first time I've seen the Blub Paradox [1] portrayed as ignorance from the other direction! OK, not a big believer of the "Blub" theory, personally

This is the first time I've seen the Blub Paradox [1] portrayed as ignorance from the other direction! OK, not a big believer of the "Blub" theory, personally - every language has its place in a continuum of dimensions that are more than just technical, and I actually like Go overall. But "lack of generics" is definitely not the same as "simplicity. Not in the decade we live in. 1. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox

Veedrac 12y ago
The Blub Paradox would only apply if the people using Go hadn't used languages with generics (or similar); for the most part that's not true. > But "lack of generics" is definitely not the same as "simplicity. It's not literally the same thing, but it is an aspect that keeps Go simple.
- jerf 12y ago
  "The Blub Paradox would only apply if the people using Go hadn't used languages with generics (or similar); for the most part that's not true." Yes, speaking for myself as someone often in the position of defending Go on HN (even though as a computer language polyglot it isn't part of my personal identity), I also speak several other languages that do have generics in them, along with substantial usage of the "dynamically typed" languages, and most relevantly, including reasonable fluency in Haskell, a language where the generics are so deep and fundamental they aren't even given a name, they just are. What Haskell calls "Generics" is actually more like what other languages call "reflection". Yes, there are a ton of programs that you can usefully write without "generics", especially since interfaces are about half of "generics", and arguably the more useful half in general. Yes, there are a ton of programs that you can't really write without them. We could do with a lot more sensible discussion about which programs are which and a lot less "Oh, you think it's OK for Go to not have generics? Well you must be an idiot then." (e.g., my frequent observation that if you need a rich numeric hierarchy you really need generics... but those cases really are exceptions compared to programs that are just fine on integers and floats, and, frankly, in many cases just fine on integers alone.)
  - 4ydx 12y ago
    This might be the first to-the-point comment I have read on HN that gives a clear perspective on the differences without being arrogant. Needing or not needing a rich numeric hierarchy is a great way to summarize it, I think. All of the hate towards a lack of generics really makes me wonder what programs people are writing that they feel they really need them given the fact that go does have interfaces. Nice post!

Veedrac 12y ago

The Blub Paradox would only apply if the people using Go hadn't used languages with generics (or similar); for the most part that's not true. > But "lack of generics" is definitely not the same as "simplicity. It's not literally the same thing, but it is an aspect that keeps Go simple.

jerf 12y ago
"The Blub Paradox would only apply if the people using Go hadn't used languages with generics (or similar); for the most part that's not true." Yes, speaking for myself as someone often in the position of defending Go on HN (even though as a computer language polyglot it isn't part of my personal identity), I also speak several other languages that do have generics in them, along with substantial usage of the "dynamically typed" languages, and most relevantly, including reasonable fluency in Haskell, a language where the generics are so deep and fundamental they aren't even given a name, they just are. What Haskell calls "Generics" is actually more like what other languages call "reflection". Yes, there are a ton of programs that you can usefully write without "generics", especially since interfaces are about half of "generics", and arguably the more useful half in general. Yes, there are a ton of programs that you can't really write without them. We could do with a lot more sensible discussion about which programs are which and a lot less "Oh, you think it's OK for Go to not have generics? Well you must be an idiot then." (e.g., my frequent observation that if you need a rich numeric hierarchy you really need generics... but those cases really are exceptions compared to programs that are just fine on integers and floats, and, frankly, in many cases just fine on integers alone.)
- 4ydx 12y ago
  This might be the first to-the-point comment I have read on HN that gives a clear perspective on the differences without being arrogant. Needing or not needing a rich numeric hierarchy is a great way to summarize it, I think. All of the hate towards a lack of generics really makes me wonder what programs people are writing that they feel they really need them given the fact that go does have interfaces. Nice post!