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I agree that lack of gender diversity in tech is an obvious problem, and I laud Fog Creek for trying to address this problem. However, I'd like to strongly emp
by jnbiche 12y ago
I agree that lack of gender diversity in tech is an obvious problem, and I laud Fog Creek for trying to address this problem.
However, I'd like to strongly emphasis the fact that one of the main problems Fog Creek identified as hindering the most talented female developers from applying to Fog Creek, is also a huge problem that prevents many of the most talented male developers from applying to Fog Creek. Ironically, these companies, with their legendarily difficult and arduous application processes, are selecting for mediocre developers:
1) We all know that the Dunning-Kruger effect is real: there's an abundance of quantified and repeatable psychological research that demonstrates that the least skilled individuals are on average the most likely to estimate their skill to be above average. Likewise, the most skilled individuals are the most cautious in estimating their skill level.
So who applies for more of these types of jobs? Well, based on what I've heard, Google, Fog Creek, and many other top employers receive a huge number of grossly unqualified applicants. And while I'm sure they'd like to think they're getting the majority of their desired candidate pool to apply, research on Dunning-Kruger, as well as anecdotes like the one on the article, all suggest that's probably not the case.
This isn't the first time I've read about a top employer asking a highly-desired employee why they'd never applied in the past, and receiving as an answer, "oh, I didn't think I'd make it through your interview process". (btw, I love watching these kinds of interactions)
2) The most qualified developers can make a nice consultant salary without ever having to go through the headache of a demeaning 5-day interview process that often treats developers like disposable commodities. Why would you want to subject yourself to that kind of process if you're making $100,000-200,000 a year as a contract software dev (which is the range my colleagues working contract tend to make, depending on their hours and expertise)? So whenever I get an email from employers like Facebook, I say thanks but no thanks.
This is not to say that these employers never get highly-skilled employees. That's obviously not the case. But they get a very specific type of highly-skilled applicant: from top CS departments, coming right out of college. They're much less likely to get a highly-skilled dev to apply who has taken an alternate route to the top of his or her profession.
So what happens on average? "Top" employers like Google, Facebook, and smaller "desirable" employers like Fog Creek, effectively scare off a large number of the devs they want the most, both male and female. And they simultaneously attract a large number of unqualified applicants.
Yet again I ask: maybe the software developer interview process is completely broken? Are employers in enough pain yet that they're willing to revisit their hiring process? Or does it need to get worse?
- ManFromUranus 12y agoWhy is the lack of gender diversity in tech an obvious problem? Women can do whatever they want to do, if they aren't in tech, they probably don't want to be there. You might say something about discrimination or sexism or some such thing, however I am highly skeptical of that. I have been a programmer for 10+ years and never saw any kind of negative discrimination against women. I have seen many examples of positive discrimination in their favour. I think that people find ways to do the things they want to do, and women don't want to be in tech, so they aren't.
- throwawayaway 12y agoWhy don't they want to be there though? There's gender imbalances in lots of places now between executives, teachers, prison, the military, some of those are positive places to have a gender balance in. I've seen lots of discrimination against females in the places I have worked, behind their back for the most part. I have also seen examples of positive discrimination in their favour, but not as much. Personally, I think it's a manufacturing line of institutions that lead to a hireable tech worker - and if you go back each step along the assembly line, the female involvement is higher percentage wise. So I think the lower representation is a product of women opting out of maths and science based subjects at an early stage, and later choosing the medical profession over engineering. It would be interesting to get some statistics over the span of a career, do a higher percentage of women change career away from tech once they start?
- trose 12y agoAnyone that doesn't think there is a problem should try asking a female dev about her experiences in her career. Besides typical societal problems like calling 35 year old women "girls" and forcing them to choose between having a family or a successful career, they face all sorts of discrimination and sexism that men don't even realize they're doing. My SO on multiple occasions has been told things like "You're the best female dev I've ever seen", "It's so nice to have girls on the team!", and "Don't worry you'll find a job because companies always want female devs". Add on top of this any sort of general sexist behavior that is rampant in offices like unwanted advances, inappropriate touching, etc. It becomes really painfully obvious why there aren't more women in tech.