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why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any way I believe exactly the opposite. People say horrible things hiding behind anonymity

by edw519 12y ago

why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any way I believe exactly the opposite. People say horrible things hiding behind anonymity. Those of us who freely identify ourselves actually attempt (albeit sometimes feebly) to talk to others as if we were in person. If we just treated each other on-line like we did in person, most of this shit would never happen. - Proud self-identified member of Hacker News for 8 years. (see profile) EDIT 1: I love engaging others on-line when I know who they are (the way HN was for a long time) much more than anonymous strangers. I would be phony if I felt this way and remained anonymous EDIT 2: Why would anyone want to work for someone who would fire them for gossip, on-line or otherwise? Firing is almost always an extreme overreaction and a clear demonstration of one's inability to run their business. Fuck 'em. Find another job with someone a little more righteous. (FWIW, things I say in person in the workplace are probably much more offensive to those who don't get it than anything I'd ever say on-line.)

celticninja 12y ago
except that only works if everyone plays by the same rules. they dont so it doesnt apply. If you get into an argument with someone, they can read through your history to determine eho you are, where you work, what your family life is like etc and then use this against you regardless of whether what you did was wrong or not. So whilst I agree in principle in reality it is unworkable.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
I have to agree. Tying yourself to your on-line identity shows that you're willing to take responsibility for your actions. There are places where you might not want to be recognized for some reason, just as there are such places in real-life (I would feel as uncomfortable browsing Silk Road for nootropics as I would feel visiting a sex shop in the shadier parts of te city) - but in general, I try to stand by what I do, including mistakes, as any responsible adult should. But really this isn't even relevant in this case. They guy got fired because he was on the photo, and the girl was a developer evangelist, which by the very job description requires you to tie your face to your on-line presence and company. If either of them was otherwise anonymous on-line, it wouldn't help them anyway.
- byuu 12y ago
  I think there's one clear distinction where this is relevant here: Hank's real name isn't known publicly, and he's employed again. His current employer might not even know about this incident. Adria is still unemployed, and sadly will never be able to escape this. But yes, it's really scary that this guy's employer found out about what he said over a photo on Twitter, and still fired him for it.
cookiecaper 12y ago
This works up until the point when some belief you expressed years ago becomes outmoded. Look at Brendan Eich; a political donation from 7 years prior, of which he made no public note and was only attached to him because of legal reporting requirements, was trudged up and used against him. I know this isn't an example of an online anonymity issue, but it shows the very dark path of intolerance we're going down, and that if you can't even safely have normal, mainstream, registered political donations attached to your name in the internet age, you definitely can't have an account that expresses political perspectives with any meaningful verbosity attached to your name. Unless you're totally, totally vanilla, and can guarantee that you will never express a controversial thought or opinion, there is little reason to take the risk of attaching your Real World identity to your comments and leaving an opening for the online mobs.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  This is something that we need to take a strong stand against, actually. It's totally wrong that such things happen - that you can be fired from your job over something irrelevant that was both legal and OK back then, just because Internet fashions change. EDIT: Also, how Brendan Eich is an argument for on-line anonymity again? All the actions that led to him getting fired were tied to his off-line identity.
- eropple 12y ago
  I have real trouble squaring "public mores change" and "that dude donated money to a thing that is dedicated exclusively to hurting people." Sure, that thing he likes that was dedicated exclusively to hurting people is no longer in vogue. Does that make his decision to help a thing that was dedicated exclusively to hurting people less bad because more other people were okay with it then than are now? Eich backed something that was always wrong, and yes, should be held to account for it. If Strom Thurmond was still alive you can bet I'd say the same thing about his efforts against, you know, the Civil Rights Act. Now here's the real thing: not only did Eich back those reprehensible politics, he by all indications continues to do so. Heck, I'm probably one of the more vocally left-wing posters here, and I was a proud libertarian nutter ten years ago. My politics have wildly shifted and I am personally embarrassed by some of the idiotic beliefs I once held--but I'm not ashamed of the journey I took to get here and I own the whole damn thing. "I believed it then, with the best information I had, and when I got better information, I changed my mind." If Eich had been a neutral actor, had mildly believed something and shifted with those public mores instead of financially supporting them, had said "you know, I believed that then, I've grown as a person, and because of X and Y I no longer believe it"? Nobody would have had a beef. But he'd supported it concretely, and apparently picked that hill to die on in his moral calculus. So he, metaphorically, did. There is a lesson of the Internet to be learned here, though: you will be viewed through the lens of history and you will probably be viewed through it during your lifetime. You don't have to be uncontroversial. But you do have to be just, be generous, and be good in your dealings. Or you will be judged harshly, and I'm honestly pretty okay with that.
byuu 12y ago
It's not about what we should do in an ideal world. It's about the realities of the world we live in, where employers will fire you at the drop of a hat, regardless of whether you are in the right or wrong. Using your real name doesn't win you any points. I could easily lie and say my real name was John Thomas. It sounds real enough. I could lie in real life with a fake name, too. Conversely, I have 18+ years of history using my pseudonym. It may not be a name chosen for me when I was born, but it has a very real reputation attached to it. The lack of empathy you speak of is a consequence of hiding behind text over great distances, not of hiding behind fake names. People act more respectable when there's even the slimmest of chances the other person could physically harm them for their words; and/or when they can actually see the harm their words cause to another. If you really have a pressing need to let your interviewer or employer know of your online achievements, speak to them in person about it with no audit trail. The people who use anonymity to say horrible things are going to do so anyway. Go and search Google for "byuu 4chan". Now replace byuu with my real name. Why would I want my employer to be able to find those things?
- yuhong 12y ago
  Personally I think the real solution is to fix these problems if possible. Still, there are many things that can be and often are posted using real names even now, this incident is about a specific topic.
fernandotakai 12y ago
same. i use my identity almost everywhere i go (and i use in 100% of all social networks i use). why? 1. it makes me remember that behind all comments there's a real person just like me 2. i cant behave like a shithead. everything i say i say with my name attached to it, so whatever i say i have to own it -- just like 'in real life'.
falcolas 12y ago
This works fine if you have a unique, identifyable name, and aren't afraid of the consequences of that name. Exposing that you are a woman via your name over the internet results in harassment. Same with being black, Arab, or Asian. Same with Gay, TG, etc. If you'd like to experience this effect, create a fictional profile which publicly advertises you as a "furry", and try and interact with the internet. You'll be amazed (and repulsed) by the responses.

by edw519 12y ago

celticninja 12y ago

except that only works if everyone plays by the same rules. they dont so it doesnt apply. If you get into an argument with someone, they can read through your history to determine eho you are, where you work, what your family life is like etc and then use this against you regardless of whether what you did was wrong or not. So whilst I agree in principle in reality it is unworkable.

TeMPOraL 12y ago

I have to agree. Tying yourself to your on-line identity shows that you're willing to take responsibility for your actions. There are places where you might not want to be recognized for some reason, just as there are such places in real-life (I would feel as uncomfortable browsing Silk Road for nootropics as I would feel visiting a sex shop in the shadier parts of te city) - but in general, I try to stand by what I do, including mistakes, as any responsible adult should. But really this isn't even relevant in this case. They guy got fired because he was on the photo, and the girl was a developer evangelist, which by the very job description requires you to tie your face to your on-line presence and company. If either of them was otherwise anonymous on-line, it wouldn't help them anyway.

byuu 12y ago
I think there's one clear distinction where this is relevant here: Hank's real name isn't known publicly, and he's employed again. His current employer might not even know about this incident. Adria is still unemployed, and sadly will never be able to escape this. But yes, it's really scary that this guy's employer found out about what he said over a photo on Twitter, and still fired him for it.

cookiecaper 12y ago

This works up until the point when some belief you expressed years ago becomes outmoded. Look at Brendan Eich; a political donation from 7 years prior, of which he made no public note and was only attached to him because of legal reporting requirements, was trudged up and used against him. I know this isn't an example of an online anonymity issue, but it shows the very dark path of intolerance we're going down, and that if you can't even safely have normal, mainstream, registered political donations attached to your name in the internet age, you definitely can't have an account that expresses political perspectives with any meaningful verbosity attached to your name. Unless you're totally, totally vanilla, and can guarantee that you will never express a controversial thought or opinion, there is little reason to take the risk of attaching your Real World identity to your comments and leaving an opening for the online mobs.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
This is something that we need to take a strong stand against, actually. It's totally wrong that such things happen - that you can be fired from your job over something irrelevant that was both legal and OK back then, just because Internet fashions change. EDIT: Also, how Brendan Eich is an argument for on-line anonymity again? All the actions that led to him getting fired were tied to his off-line identity.
eropple 12y ago
I have real trouble squaring "public mores change" and "that dude donated money to a thing that is dedicated exclusively to hurting people." Sure, that thing he likes that was dedicated exclusively to hurting people is no longer in vogue. Does that make his decision to help a thing that was dedicated exclusively to hurting people less bad because more other people were okay with it then than are now? Eich backed something that was always wrong, and yes, should be held to account for it. If Strom Thurmond was still alive you can bet I'd say the same thing about his efforts against, you know, the Civil Rights Act. Now here's the real thing: not only did Eich back those reprehensible politics, he by all indications continues to do so. Heck, I'm probably one of the more vocally left-wing posters here, and I was a proud libertarian nutter ten years ago. My politics have wildly shifted and I am personally embarrassed by some of the idiotic beliefs I once held--but I'm not ashamed of the journey I took to get here and I own the whole damn thing. "I believed it then, with the best information I had, and when I got better information, I changed my mind." If Eich had been a neutral actor, had mildly believed something and shifted with those public mores instead of financially supporting them, had said "you know, I believed that then, I've grown as a person, and because of X and Y I no longer believe it"? Nobody would have had a beef. But he'd supported it concretely, and apparently picked that hill to die on in his moral calculus. So he, metaphorically, did. There is a lesson of the Internet to be learned here, though: you will be viewed through the lens of history and you will probably be viewed through it during your lifetime. You don't have to be uncontroversial. But you do have to be just, be generous, and be good in your dealings. Or you will be judged harshly, and I'm honestly pretty okay with that.

byuu 12y ago

It's not about what we should do in an ideal world. It's about the realities of the world we live in, where employers will fire you at the drop of a hat, regardless of whether you are in the right or wrong. Using your real name doesn't win you any points. I could easily lie and say my real name was John Thomas. It sounds real enough. I could lie in real life with a fake name, too. Conversely, I have 18+ years of history using my pseudonym. It may not be a name chosen for me when I was born, but it has a very real reputation attached to it. The lack of empathy you speak of is a consequence of hiding behind text over great distances, not of hiding behind fake names. People act more respectable when there's even the slimmest of chances the other person could physically harm them for their words; and/or when they can actually see the harm their words cause to another. If you really have a pressing need to let your interviewer or employer know of your online achievements, speak to them in person about it with no audit trail. The people who use anonymity to say horrible things are going to do so anyway. Go and search Google for "byuu 4chan". Now replace byuu with my real name. Why would I want my employer to be able to find those things?

yuhong 12y ago
Personally I think the real solution is to fix these problems if possible. Still, there are many things that can be and often are posted using real names even now, this incident is about a specific topic.

fernandotakai 12y ago

same. i use my identity almost everywhere i go (and i use in 100% of all social networks i use). why? 1. it makes me remember that behind all comments there's a real person just like me 2. i cant behave like a shithead. everything i say i say with my name attached to it, so whatever i say i have to own it -- just like 'in real life'.

falcolas 12y ago

This works fine if you have a unique, identifyable name, and aren't afraid of the consequences of that name. Exposing that you are a woman via your name over the internet results in harassment. Same with being black, Arab, or Asian. Same with Gay, TG, etc. If you'd like to experience this effect, create a fictional profile which publicly advertises you as a "furry", and try and interact with the internet. You'll be amazed (and repulsed) by the responses.