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What makes me laugh is where she says she's not to blame for what happened to Hank yet she then blames HIM for what happened to her. If she didn't send the twe

What makes me laugh is where she says she's not to blame for what happened to Hank yet she then blames HIM for what happened to her. If she didn't send the tweet, he wouldn't have got fired. If he didn't get fired, he wouldn't have posted on HN about being fired. If he didn't post on HN then none of this would've happened. Basically it all stems from her original tweet.. I'm not condoning any of the behaviour but it could've quite easily been handled more maturely. If, instead of turning round, taking a photo and tweeting she'd approached him like an adult (maybe with the conference organisers if she was scared) and said "That's not cool" to him so he could actually apologised to her and none of this would've happened.

Jem 12y ago
Totally agree with your first 3 sentences, can't agree with the last. Finding the courage to stand up and directly address someone who is making you feel uncomfortable - especially if you're a minority in a certain environment - takes a lot of courage and absolute certainty that you're not going to get a mouthful of abuse back. (I think talking directly to the conf organisers/staff would have been the preferred route, personally.)
- adwn 12y ago
  > Finding the courage to stand up and directly address someone who is making you feel uncomfortable [...] She didn't. Instead of directly addressing them and giving them a chance to explain and apologize, she instead proceeded to put them in a public pillory. That's the opposite of courageous, it's malicious, sneaky, and underhanded.
  - Jem 12y ago
    I know what she did. I didn't say I agreed with her approach (quite the opposite, in fact).
- altcognito 12y ago
  Handling it personally makes a lot of sense. I have children, I don't teach them to immediately run to authority the minute they are offended. You should be able to confront/request somebody behave appropriately without them "giving back a mouthful of abuse". And therein lies the key, if they give you back a mouthful of abuse, then take it higher up. There are absolutely situations where going directly to conf organizers and staff is appropriate, but this doesn't seem like one to me.
  - Jem 12y ago
    I also have children, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Of course you SHOULD be able to tell someone you're offended without the risk of backlash, but it's always a risk. Clearly Adria decided to handle that risk in a different way than you or I would have.
    - altcognito 12y ago
      It's relevant because talking directly to people and not tattle-telling is part of growing up, and it's unfortunate this wasn't done. It doesn't mean she isn't grown up though as this is just one non-representative tiny slice of two people's entire lives. Honestly, I didn't get a chance to update my message, but another question (seen here and elsewhere) is probably more important: "Why isn't the story about her life being threatened over this?" That's the more ridiculous part of this story.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    If all she had done was go the organizers, we wouldn't be talking about it.
- dude17172009 12y ago
  But if she was scared, why would she tweet using her real account.
tbrownaw 12y ago
so he could actually apologised to her and none of this would've happened "I'm sorry you're irrationally afraid of overheard immature jokes"?
- imjoshholloway 12y ago
  If it was me I'd have said something like "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to offend you, I didn't mean it to". But yeah, your one works too ;)
akuchling 12y ago
That is in fact what happened. PyCon posted a statement afterwards (http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropr...) that said "Both parties were met with, in private. The comments that were made were in poor taste, and individuals involved agreed, apologized and no further actions were taken by the staff of PyCon 2013. No individuals were removed from the conference, no sanctions were levied." The problem is that things didn't stop there.
- imjoshholloway 12y ago
  She publicly shamed them first: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464/photo/1 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464/...
- Torgo 12y ago
  That is exactly why tweetshaming is so bad. Because you're basically throwing chum in the ocean and disclaiming that you're responsible for the shark frenzy.
Lawtonfogle 12y ago
What wasn't cool? Making a joke about a human body part to a friend that was accidentally overheard? Didn't she make a similar joke on a far more public forum than Hank did?
- imjoshholloway 12y ago
  I personally don't see what Adria was originally offended by but I'm male so unless there's something in what Hank said that I won't see as offensive unless I'm female then I don't have a clue. Yeah, she did: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425

Jem 12y ago

Totally agree with your first 3 sentences, can't agree with the last. Finding the courage to stand up and directly address someone who is making you feel uncomfortable - especially if you're a minority in a certain environment - takes a lot of courage and absolute certainty that you're not going to get a mouthful of abuse back. (I think talking directly to the conf organisers/staff would have been the preferred route, personally.)

adwn 12y ago
> Finding the courage to stand up and directly address someone who is making you feel uncomfortable [...] She didn't. Instead of directly addressing them and giving them a chance to explain and apologize, she instead proceeded to put them in a public pillory. That's the opposite of courageous, it's malicious, sneaky, and underhanded.
- Jem 12y ago
  I know what she did. I didn't say I agreed with her approach (quite the opposite, in fact).
altcognito 12y ago
Handling it personally makes a lot of sense. I have children, I don't teach them to immediately run to authority the minute they are offended. You should be able to confront/request somebody behave appropriately without them "giving back a mouthful of abuse". And therein lies the key, if they give you back a mouthful of abuse, then take it higher up. There are absolutely situations where going directly to conf organizers and staff is appropriate, but this doesn't seem like one to me.
- Jem 12y ago
  I also have children, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Of course you SHOULD be able to tell someone you're offended without the risk of backlash, but it's always a risk. Clearly Adria decided to handle that risk in a different way than you or I would have.
  - altcognito 12y ago
    It's relevant because talking directly to people and not tattle-telling is part of growing up, and it's unfortunate this wasn't done. It doesn't mean she isn't grown up though as this is just one non-representative tiny slice of two people's entire lives. Honestly, I didn't get a chance to update my message, but another question (seen here and elsewhere) is probably more important: "Why isn't the story about her life being threatened over this?" That's the more ridiculous part of this story.
- mercurial 12y ago
  If all she had done was go the organizers, we wouldn't be talking about it.
dude17172009 12y ago
But if she was scared, why would she tweet using her real account.

tbrownaw 12y ago

so he could actually apologised to her and none of this would've happened "I'm sorry you're irrationally afraid of overheard immature jokes"?

imjoshholloway 12y ago
If it was me I'd have said something like "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to offend you, I didn't mean it to". But yeah, your one works too ;)

akuchling 12y ago

That is in fact what happened. PyCon posted a statement afterwards (http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropr...) that said "Both parties were met with, in private. The comments that were made were in poor taste, and individuals involved agreed, apologized and no further actions were taken by the staff of PyCon 2013. No individuals were removed from the conference, no sanctions were levied." The problem is that things didn't stop there.

imjoshholloway 12y ago
She publicly shamed them first: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464/photo/1 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464/...
Torgo 12y ago
That is exactly why tweetshaming is so bad. Because you're basically throwing chum in the ocean and disclaiming that you're responsible for the shark frenzy.

Lawtonfogle 12y ago

What wasn't cool? Making a joke about a human body part to a friend that was accidentally overheard? Didn't she make a similar joke on a far more public forum than Hank did?

imjoshholloway 12y ago
I personally don't see what Adria was originally offended by but I'm male so unless there's something in what Hank said that I won't see as offensive unless I'm female then I don't have a clue. Yeah, she did: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425