40 ms·

I didn't see mention of what the degrees these young people's degrees are in. Are these degrees in areas with little to no demand, "I'm majoring in Latin Americ

I didn't see mention of what the degrees these young people's degrees are in. Are these degrees in areas with little to no demand, "I'm majoring in Latin American Art history", or are these people getting degrees in highly in demand areas? My software shop is hiring developers and recent grads all the time - we hired 5 people in the last 2 months.

gaius 17y ago
The kind of person who does Art History in the first place is the kind of person whose family has the money to support them to essentially pursue their hobby full-time for 4 years. So the internship thing is not actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things - their families can afford to continue supporting them, until they can find a lifestyle job. People do science and engineering for the love of it, sure, but these kinds of people don't forget that someday they'll need to support themselves. It's not only the skills but the down-to-earth attitude that makes these people such prized commodities in the job market.
- ido 17y ago
  The kind of person who does Art History in the first place is the kind of person whose family has the money to support them to essentially pursue their hobby full-time for 4 years. Not necessarily, I know several people who studied liberal arts and did so by getting student loans and scholarships.
- unalone 17y ago
  Sometimes people care more about what they love than they do about whether they can support themselves with it. Please don't assume every person passionate about the arts is spoiled and rich.
  - gaius 17y ago
    Depends what you mean. There's work around for graphic designers and musicians. The only job in art history is, umm, teaching art history.
    - unalone 17y ago
      As I said: Some people care more about the learning than they do about the job. I've got art history major friends. They know there's not much work to be found there, but they're in it anyway, finances be damned, because they love art history and that's what they want to learn. College isn't about getting jobs. That's how it's used now, and that sorta sucks. College is about learning things you couldn't learn better elsewhere. So they're going to learn art history because they really want to know about art history, not because they're trying to make shitloads of money.
      - gaius 17y ago
        So what are these kids complaining about? They didn't want to make money, now they're not making money! By their own definition, they've got successful careers already!
        unalone 17y ago
        The point the OP was making was: You can't lump together all college students when writing an article like this, because not all college students are going to college to get high-powered jobs. College has never been about merely finding employment. It would therefore be more interesting to look at only business-inclined majors when studying something like this, because art history majors, say, haven't ever had a long tradition of finding employment after college.
        gaius 17y ago
        I wouldn't call science and engineering "high powered jobs", but the truth is there are only two choices at college: learn to do something people will pay you for, or pursue your hobby full-time for a few years. Some people are able to combine the two successfully and of course that's the ideal. But the hobbyists have no grounds for complaining that they're unemployable. It was never a secret that people without useful skills aren't in great demand.
        17y ago
- jacobolus 17y ago
  I don't think you realize how offensive your tone is in these posts. You're dismissing huge swaths of human creative and intellectual activity with sarcastic derision. We get that you're not interested in art history, literature, social sciences, etc. Either figure out a way make that point dispassionately, or find something else to talk about, or you're going to make enemies pretty quickly. (Also, the humanities and social science majors I know are just as down-to-earth and hard working as the science students. They have tremendous skills, albeit different ones; solving tricky differential equations isn't everything in the world. The problem is not that these graduates are unskilled, but rather that the whole economy has taken a nosedive, and the kinds of jobs they used to take, which required their intellectual skills, just don't exist in their previous numbers. For example, as described in the article, media and advertising are being crushed.)
pmjordan 17y ago
This is Europe, but: my girlfriend is in this sort of situation, and she has a Master's degree in mathematics. Basically, if you can't enter a job with zero training, you're screwed. Everyone expects you to be 100% productive instantly. The entry-level has become unpaid if you're lucky, or disappeared completely. A separate problem which compounds this is that European universities have been switching to the Anglo-American Bachelor/Master system from the previous diploma system, and many employers consider these new titles to be worthless.
maximumwage 17y ago
Not everyone has the mathematical intelligence, willpower, mental health, or emotional stability required to make it through an engineering degree. In addition, many students feel they have to go to college just to get a job. For those reasons (and others) many students end up studying for a liberal arts degree. What should those students be doing instead?

gaius 17y ago

The kind of person who does Art History in the first place is the kind of person whose family has the money to support them to essentially pursue their hobby full-time for 4 years. So the internship thing is not actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things - their families can afford to continue supporting them, until they can find a lifestyle job. People do science and engineering for the love of it, sure, but these kinds of people don't forget that someday they'll need to support themselves. It's not only the skills but the down-to-earth attitude that makes these people such prized commodities in the job market.

ido 17y ago
The kind of person who does Art History in the first place is the kind of person whose family has the money to support them to essentially pursue their hobby full-time for 4 years. Not necessarily, I know several people who studied liberal arts and did so by getting student loans and scholarships.
unalone 17y ago
Sometimes people care more about what they love than they do about whether they can support themselves with it. Please don't assume every person passionate about the arts is spoiled and rich.
- gaius 17y ago
  Depends what you mean. There's work around for graphic designers and musicians. The only job in art history is, umm, teaching art history.
  - unalone 17y ago
    As I said: Some people care more about the learning than they do about the job. I've got art history major friends. They know there's not much work to be found there, but they're in it anyway, finances be damned, because they love art history and that's what they want to learn. College isn't about getting jobs. That's how it's used now, and that sorta sucks. College is about learning things you couldn't learn better elsewhere. So they're going to learn art history because they really want to know about art history, not because they're trying to make shitloads of money.
    - gaius 17y ago
      So what are these kids complaining about? They didn't want to make money, now they're not making money! By their own definition, they've got successful careers already!
      - unalone 17y ago
        The point the OP was making was: You can't lump together all college students when writing an article like this, because not all college students are going to college to get high-powered jobs. College has never been about merely finding employment. It would therefore be more interesting to look at only business-inclined majors when studying something like this, because art history majors, say, haven't ever had a long tradition of finding employment after college.
        gaius 17y ago
        I wouldn't call science and engineering "high powered jobs", but the truth is there are only two choices at college: learn to do something people will pay you for, or pursue your hobby full-time for a few years. Some people are able to combine the two successfully and of course that's the ideal. But the hobbyists have no grounds for complaining that they're unemployable. It was never a secret that people without useful skills aren't in great demand.
        17y ago
jacobolus 17y ago
I don't think you realize how offensive your tone is in these posts. You're dismissing huge swaths of human creative and intellectual activity with sarcastic derision. We get that you're not interested in art history, literature, social sciences, etc. Either figure out a way make that point dispassionately, or find something else to talk about, or you're going to make enemies pretty quickly. (Also, the humanities and social science majors I know are just as down-to-earth and hard working as the science students. They have tremendous skills, albeit different ones; solving tricky differential equations isn't everything in the world. The problem is not that these graduates are unskilled, but rather that the whole economy has taken a nosedive, and the kinds of jobs they used to take, which required their intellectual skills, just don't exist in their previous numbers. For example, as described in the article, media and advertising are being crushed.)

pmjordan 17y ago

This is Europe, but: my girlfriend is in this sort of situation, and she has a Master's degree in mathematics. Basically, if you can't enter a job with zero training, you're screwed. Everyone expects you to be 100% productive instantly. The entry-level has become unpaid if you're lucky, or disappeared completely. A separate problem which compounds this is that European universities have been switching to the Anglo-American Bachelor/Master system from the previous diploma system, and many employers consider these new titles to be worthless.

maximumwage 17y ago

Not everyone has the mathematical intelligence, willpower, mental health, or emotional stability required to make it through an engineering degree. In addition, many students feel they have to go to college just to get a job. For those reasons (and others) many students end up studying for a liberal arts degree. What should those students be doing instead?