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No. You're conflating the trust-less nature of bitcoin with the idea that individuals who possess Bitcoin are trustful. The very nature of Bitcoin lies on the

by lsadam0 12y ago

No. You're conflating the trust-less nature of bitcoin with the idea that individuals who possess Bitcoin are trustful. The very nature of Bitcoin lies on the assertion that no individual is trustful, and that a trustful network can arise in which no individual node is trusted. The blockchain allows us to verify that a particular operation has occurred. For example, the blockchain will verify that a particular address owns 1 BTC, or that 1 BTC has transferred from one address to another. It provides reliable, verifiable unit of account without relying on any one actor to be trustful. The blockchain absolutely does NOT verify that a person won't lie to you to get your money, or that they won't blow it all in casino once you send it to them. That would be an unbelievable miracle, as it would require knowledge of the future. No rational person has ever claimed the blockchain will prevent scamming. Quite the opposite in fact.

ForHackernews 12y ago
Maybe you should clue in the rest of the bitcoin community, e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f2ubh/why_bitcoins/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f2ubh/why_bitcoins... > 3) No fraud or charge-back (from a seller/business PoV). > 13a) Potentially, because of the profit from no fraud and the deflationary nature of Bitcoin. Vendors will realise they can lower their prices for Btc purchases. And when inflation ends, due to no fraud, they will still be able to have lower prices than competitors.
- lsadam0 12y ago
  The OP, BitcoinJobe, goes on in the comments of your link to clarify the statement is that there are not fraudulent chargebacks in Bitcoin. He's right. There aren't. You can't make a bitcoin purchase, receive the item, and then get your money back through a charge back. He's right on both points. Fraudulent chargebacks are a legitimate concern for sellers, and I assure you that loss is reflected in the selling price you and I pay. 13a asserts that if a vendor is able to eliminate the chargeback problem through bitcoin use, then the savings can possibly be passed on to consumers. What's insane about any of that? You're not comprehending what you're arguing against.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    Maybe you should read more carefully. > No fraud OR charge-back Strongly implies those to be two different things. You write "Fraudulent chargebacks", talking about a single thing, a specific kind (fraudulent) of chargeback. You also neglect to mention that bitcoin eliminates fraudulent chargebacks by just not having chargebacks at all. Which is a bit like celebrating North Korea eliminating voter fraud. This kind of thing is everywhere in the bitcoin community: Make absurd, grandiose claims ("be your own bank!", "bitcoin is the future of money", "totally decentralized!" [except for the giant central ledger of all transactions]). And then whenever you get called out on it, you'll retreat to some more limited, defensible argument, and claim that's what you were really talking about all along. There's a name for this kind of rhetoric, it's a "motte-and-bailey" argument: http://philpapers.org/archive/SHATVO-2.pdf http://philpapers.org/archive/SHATVO-2.pdf

by lsadam0 12y ago

ForHackernews 12y ago

Maybe you should clue in the rest of the bitcoin community, e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f2ubh/why_bitcoins/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f2ubh/why_bitcoins... > 3) No fraud or charge-back (from a seller/business PoV). > 13a) Potentially, because of the profit from no fraud and the deflationary nature of Bitcoin. Vendors will realise they can lower their prices for Btc purchases. And when inflation ends, due to no fraud, they will still be able to have lower prices than competitors.

lsadam0 12y ago
The OP, BitcoinJobe, goes on in the comments of your link to clarify the statement is that there are not fraudulent chargebacks in Bitcoin. He's right. There aren't. You can't make a bitcoin purchase, receive the item, and then get your money back through a charge back. He's right on both points. Fraudulent chargebacks are a legitimate concern for sellers, and I assure you that loss is reflected in the selling price you and I pay. 13a asserts that if a vendor is able to eliminate the chargeback problem through bitcoin use, then the savings can possibly be passed on to consumers. What's insane about any of that? You're not comprehending what you're arguing against.
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  Maybe you should read more carefully. > No fraud OR charge-back Strongly implies those to be two different things. You write "Fraudulent chargebacks", talking about a single thing, a specific kind (fraudulent) of chargeback. You also neglect to mention that bitcoin eliminates fraudulent chargebacks by just not having chargebacks at all. Which is a bit like celebrating North Korea eliminating voter fraud. This kind of thing is everywhere in the bitcoin community: Make absurd, grandiose claims ("be your own bank!", "bitcoin is the future of money", "totally decentralized!" [except for the giant central ledger of all transactions]). And then whenever you get called out on it, you'll retreat to some more limited, defensible argument, and claim that's what you were really talking about all along. There's a name for this kind of rhetoric, it's a "motte-and-bailey" argument: http://philpapers.org/archive/SHATVO-2.pdf http://philpapers.org/archive/SHATVO-2.pdf