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I understand why you wouldn't want to talk about money questions earlier on, but for me there's two main reasons to bring it up: 1) Employers have always me ab

by pgl 12y ago

I understand why you wouldn't want to talk about money questions earlier on, but for me there's two main reasons to bring it up: 1) Employers have always me about my salary expectations. If they want to know from me, why shouldn't they answer as well? 2) If the range expectations are way off, you don't have to waste your time going through a series of interviews only to find out that their salary range is 10k less than you were expecting, or they don't offer relocation, or whatever. Personally, I only ever want to be paid a fair wage; I'm not after the most I can possibly get. So finding out whether the range matches what the market seems as fair early on is important.

logfromblammo 12y ago
1) It's a double standard. You don't have the power to enforce fairness in the interview process. You can only react to prevailing tactics in a way that best preserves your position. Your best options are to not apply to positions that post a range too low, and to not discuss salary at all until an offer is on the table. If you already have a job, and the prospective employer asks you for your expectations, defer and delay. If they will not proceed without your answer, WALK AWAY. Otherwise, name a price 20% higher than what you would be happy with, and qualify it by saying that what you learn later in the interview process may merit a revision. 2) $10k is peanuts to the company. If they really can't afford to monetize your efforts enough to pay you what you are worth, they should really be up front about that themselves, and put their range in the ad. Otherwise, any company above a certain size can pretty easily justify budgeting $200k or more in salary and benefits for even a mediocre developer. A mediocre developer will never be able to actually get that much because of market pressures, but if a company can justify hiring their own developers at all, they can justify paying a little more for a good one. That's why the logical progression is to first find out how much you will be worth to the company, and then determine the compensation package that makes you a profitable employee. You don't want to work for a company that determines compensation first, then scrambles to figure out how to pay for it. In summary, always make the employer say their salary number first. If they won't, they are already trying to cut the costs you represent to them, before even hiring you. The fair wage is the most you can possibly get [while still earning profit for the company].
- jghn 12y ago
  "You don't have the power to enforce fairness in the interview process" I can though, I can choose to not participate. While this hasn't always been the case, there is no position that I'd want so dearly that I'll let them treat me like dirt during the hiring process. If it pisses them off that I expect them to treat it like a 2 way street, c'est la vie.

by pgl 12y ago

logfromblammo 12y ago

1) It's a double standard. You don't have the power to enforce fairness in the interview process. You can only react to prevailing tactics in a way that best preserves your position. Your best options are to not apply to positions that post a range too low, and to not discuss salary at all until an offer is on the table. If you already have a job, and the prospective employer asks you for your expectations, defer and delay. If they will not proceed without your answer, WALK AWAY. Otherwise, name a price 20% higher than what you would be happy with, and qualify it by saying that what you learn later in the interview process may merit a revision. 2) $10k is peanuts to the company. If they really can't afford to monetize your efforts enough to pay you what you are worth, they should really be up front about that themselves, and put their range in the ad. Otherwise, any company above a certain size can pretty easily justify budgeting $200k or more in salary and benefits for even a mediocre developer. A mediocre developer will never be able to actually get that much because of market pressures, but if a company can justify hiring their own developers at all, they can justify paying a little more for a good one. That's why the logical progression is to first find out how much you will be worth to the company, and then determine the compensation package that makes you a profitable employee. You don't want to work for a company that determines compensation first, then scrambles to figure out how to pay for it. In summary, always make the employer say their salary number first. If they won't, they are already trying to cut the costs you represent to them, before even hiring you. The fair wage is the most you can possibly get [while still earning profit for the company].

jghn 12y ago
"You don't have the power to enforce fairness in the interview process" I can though, I can choose to not participate. While this hasn't always been the case, there is no position that I'd want so dearly that I'll let them treat me like dirt during the hiring process. If it pisses them off that I expect them to treat it like a 2 way street, c'est la vie.