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One interpretation that you seem to overlook in favor of an external demonic possession: he has sociopathic tendencies (perhaps spying on you) and was attempti

One interpretation that you seem to overlook in favor of an external demonic possession: he has sociopathic tendencies (perhaps spying on you) and was attempting to manipulate you into thinking he is/was possessed. Maybe you even got wasted with Jim once and let out some secrets. Anyway, I If true, he succeeded in defending his criminal behavior by outsourcing his internal evil on bogus societal constructs such as religion or demonic possession. I see why you got downvoted though; the OP makes a yet another more plausible case of splitting of the self, or growth of a more evil, maniacal self.

michaelsbradley 12y ago
Actually, I didn't overlook the "spying" interpretation. It's certainly a possibility given Jim's tendency to compulsive and obsessive behavior. But as I noted, the things he related were not accessible in any recorded medium, nor did I speak of them to Jim nor anyone else during the time I knew him. Prior to that, I lived in a different part of the country and was even out of the country for awhile. Some of the things I'm fairly certainly I never related to anyone at any time. I was never intoxicated during the time I knew Jim – I gave that up several years prior. Jim never claimed to be possessed, nor anything like that. He would have found the idea repulsive. On the contrary, he generally considered himself to have a privileged relationship with God – a not uncommon delusion among persons suffering from severe mental illness. At the same time, I never heard him justify his personal behavior on that basis. Generally, Jim seemed to believe that other people, especially the police, had serious moral and intellectual defects which caused them to misunderstand and persecute him. He also displayed paranoia (sometimes extreme, to the point of self-harm) about most everything and everyone. Finally, I never gave (and don't give) Jim a "pass" because I believe he was possessed. In fact, I'm not sure he was. The only thing I am certain of is that he displayed all the signs of serious, prolonged and untreated mental illness. I also thought he was deeply spiritually troubled – so I prayed for him a lot (still do) and I tried to encourage him to seek the counsel and ministry of a couple of wise pastors in the area. However, for all his hyper-religiosity, Jim displayed a strong aversion to church and to authority figures in general. The incident I described previously did make me consider that some aspects of his malaise might be related to demonic influence, and the events seems to defy a natural explanation, but I cannot presume to know for certain.
- NobleLie 12y ago
  Fascinating story. Thanks for sharing, though I hope you understand my general doubt. But you'd expect that since I'm so far away from these strange occurrences. Getting back to the point of this thread: when you pray, are you praying to something external, or are you praying to an internal divided, yet more divine, disconnected self?
  - michaelsbradley 12y ago
    I understand completely, and take no offense of any kind. When it comes to personal prayer, my understanding has been shaped most strongly by the following two texts: https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up http://christianperfection.info/tta6.php http://christianperfection.info/tta6.php When it comes to corporate prayer, my experiences and understanding have been most strongly influenced by public worship in the "style" of what is sometimes called the Traditional Latin Mass: http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/dayHD.html http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/dayHD.html There are numerous texts which attempt to explain what the latter "is all about". A favorite of mine is a guide, of sorts, for uniting one's personal prayer with the corporate prayer of the Mass: http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/hidden-treasure2.htm http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/hidden-treasure2.... Finally, a mode of silent corporate prayer which is also intensely personal is called "Eucharistic Adoration", during which one's attention is directed toward Jesus, who Catholics believe is bodily present under the appearance of bread. Many believers also make "holy hours" before the Eucharist on their own at little chapels throughout the world. There is even an online chapel, of sorts: http://savior.org/ http://savior.org/ ------- A common thread to all of the personal dimensions of these kinds of prayer is that there is frequently an interior dialogue, perhaps deliberately shaped according to a method of discursive meditation. However, there is also understood to be an exterior object of prayer, God Himself or the Saints and Angels. The dynamic by which the interior dialogue is (or can be, in any case) supplanted by something which transcends the one who prays has been the object of much writing over the past 2,000 years of Christian history. Generally speaking, the subject matter is treated by the ascetical and mystical branches of Catholic theology. The second link from the top is to a book which tries to summarize the most accepted schools of thought in those areas, i.e. within the Western Catholic Church.

michaelsbradley 12y ago

Actually, I didn't overlook the "spying" interpretation. It's certainly a possibility given Jim's tendency to compulsive and obsessive behavior. But as I noted, the things he related were not accessible in any recorded medium, nor did I speak of them to Jim nor anyone else during the time I knew him. Prior to that, I lived in a different part of the country and was even out of the country for awhile. Some of the things I'm fairly certainly I never related to anyone at any time. I was never intoxicated during the time I knew Jim – I gave that up several years prior. Jim never claimed to be possessed, nor anything like that. He would have found the idea repulsive. On the contrary, he generally considered himself to have a privileged relationship with God – a not uncommon delusion among persons suffering from severe mental illness. At the same time, I never heard him justify his personal behavior on that basis. Generally, Jim seemed to believe that other people, especially the police, had serious moral and intellectual defects which caused them to misunderstand and persecute him. He also displayed paranoia (sometimes extreme, to the point of self-harm) about most everything and everyone. Finally, I never gave (and don't give) Jim a "pass" because I believe he was possessed. In fact, I'm not sure he was. The only thing I am certain of is that he displayed all the signs of serious, prolonged and untreated mental illness. I also thought he was deeply spiritually troubled – so I prayed for him a lot (still do) and I tried to encourage him to seek the counsel and ministry of a couple of wise pastors in the area. However, for all his hyper-religiosity, Jim displayed a strong aversion to church and to authority figures in general. The incident I described previously did make me consider that some aspects of his malaise might be related to demonic influence, and the events seems to defy a natural explanation, but I cannot presume to know for certain.

NobleLie 12y ago
Fascinating story. Thanks for sharing, though I hope you understand my general doubt. But you'd expect that since I'm so far away from these strange occurrences. Getting back to the point of this thread: when you pray, are you praying to something external, or are you praying to an internal divided, yet more divine, disconnected self?
- michaelsbradley 12y ago
  I understand completely, and take no offense of any kind. When it comes to personal prayer, my understanding has been shaped most strongly by the following two texts: https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up http://christianperfection.info/tta6.php http://christianperfection.info/tta6.php When it comes to corporate prayer, my experiences and understanding have been most strongly influenced by public worship in the "style" of what is sometimes called the Traditional Latin Mass: http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/dayHD.html http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/dayHD.html There are numerous texts which attempt to explain what the latter "is all about". A favorite of mine is a guide, of sorts, for uniting one's personal prayer with the corporate prayer of the Mass: http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/hidden-treasure2.htm http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/hidden-treasure2.... Finally, a mode of silent corporate prayer which is also intensely personal is called "Eucharistic Adoration", during which one's attention is directed toward Jesus, who Catholics believe is bodily present under the appearance of bread. Many believers also make "holy hours" before the Eucharist on their own at little chapels throughout the world. There is even an online chapel, of sorts: http://savior.org/ http://savior.org/ ------- A common thread to all of the personal dimensions of these kinds of prayer is that there is frequently an interior dialogue, perhaps deliberately shaped according to a method of discursive meditation. However, there is also understood to be an exterior object of prayer, God Himself or the Saints and Angels. The dynamic by which the interior dialogue is (or can be, in any case) supplanted by something which transcends the one who prays has been the object of much writing over the past 2,000 years of Christian history. Generally speaking, the subject matter is treated by the ascetical and mystical branches of Catholic theology. The second link from the top is to a book which tries to summarize the most accepted schools of thought in those areas, i.e. within the Western Catholic Church.