4 ms·

Institutional discrimination is a thing, but segregation (either voluntarily or by force) only makes that problem worse, not better.

n72 12y ago
At the risk of going all hn on you — citation?
theseoafs 12y ago
In what way does a program for women to get involved in open-source software even slightly resemble "segregation"?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- patzerhacker 12y ago
  In these comments I'm specifically addressing the currently "in" movement of having gender segregated events (but apparently only no-men events) as a way to paradoxically increase diversity, not of segregation as a systematic policy of dividing groups as a form of control as in the Jim Crow regime in the American South from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights era. Sorry if that was not clear.
  - theseoafs 12y ago
    Obviously, if women-only events encourage women to get into the larger tech scene as a whole, then that increases diversity. There's nothing "paradoxical" about it. It's very straightforward. The idea isn't that we create a bunch of events so that women can program/hack without ever interacting with men. That should be obvious.
  - ulisesrmzroche 12y ago
    It doesn't even resemble that in the slightest. Jim Crow was meant to oppress, not empower. That's like saying white pride and black pride are the same thing. Yeah, your writing is unclear, but that's not why people are disagreeing with you.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    As a guy who attended an AdaCamp, which was a women-only main event with a small side event for guys, I say this is horseshit. For the first time in my life, I was the visible minority at a tech event. And it was fucking intimidating. Even though everybody was perfectly nice and tried to be inclusive, I felt the odd person out. But despite my personal discomfort, I could see how amazing this event was for the women involved. Suddenly they were in the majority. They felt safe: nobody was going to hit on them, stalk them, or stare awkwardly at their breasts. They were no longer women in tech, they were people in tech talking with other people in tech. From the Ada Initiative's reports and from talking with attendees later, it's clear the events make a huge difference. After that experience, I am a huge supporter of events that are exclusively for minority groups. I think it's a great way to increase diversity in tech. Oh, and as to your analogy to Jim Crow: you're trying to frame yourself as a virtuous anti-racist. But by trying to prevent minorities from meeting and organizing, you are replicating the behavior of the white people who helped build and maintain the Jim Crow regime. E.g., the slave patrols, a main job of which was keep blacks from revolting by breaking up meetings.

n72 12y ago

At the risk of going all hn on you — citation?

theseoafs 12y ago

In what way does a program for women to get involved in open-source software even slightly resemble "segregation"?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
patzerhacker 12y ago
In these comments I'm specifically addressing the currently "in" movement of having gender segregated events (but apparently only no-men events) as a way to paradoxically increase diversity, not of segregation as a systematic policy of dividing groups as a form of control as in the Jim Crow regime in the American South from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights era. Sorry if that was not clear.
- theseoafs 12y ago
  Obviously, if women-only events encourage women to get into the larger tech scene as a whole, then that increases diversity. There's nothing "paradoxical" about it. It's very straightforward. The idea isn't that we create a bunch of events so that women can program/hack without ever interacting with men. That should be obvious.
- ulisesrmzroche 12y ago
  It doesn't even resemble that in the slightest. Jim Crow was meant to oppress, not empower. That's like saying white pride and black pride are the same thing. Yeah, your writing is unclear, but that's not why people are disagreeing with you.
- wpietri 12y ago
  As a guy who attended an AdaCamp, which was a women-only main event with a small side event for guys, I say this is horseshit. For the first time in my life, I was the visible minority at a tech event. And it was fucking intimidating. Even though everybody was perfectly nice and tried to be inclusive, I felt the odd person out. But despite my personal discomfort, I could see how amazing this event was for the women involved. Suddenly they were in the majority. They felt safe: nobody was going to hit on them, stalk them, or stare awkwardly at their breasts. They were no longer women in tech, they were people in tech talking with other people in tech. From the Ada Initiative's reports and from talking with attendees later, it's clear the events make a huge difference. After that experience, I am a huge supporter of events that are exclusively for minority groups. I think it's a great way to increase diversity in tech. Oh, and as to your analogy to Jim Crow: you're trying to frame yourself as a virtuous anti-racist. But by trying to prevent minorities from meeting and organizing, you are replicating the behavior of the white people who helped build and maintain the Jim Crow regime. E.g., the slave patrols, a main job of which was keep blacks from revolting by breaking up meetings.