5 ms·

Yes, this is a terrible problem, but: what's the solution?

mclemme 12y ago
If people would only stop buying stuff they don't need, but that seems to be the driving force of the modern consumer society. The norm where I live seems to be to purchase new computers, smartphones, etc. every 6-24 months (phones more often compared to computers). Whereas the more frugal people I know mostly purchase new electronics when the old item has truly and utterly died without the possibility of repair. But assuming that will not change in the near future it seems that selling refurbished electronics at cheaper prices as well as improving the manufacturing process to use less toxic materials, could help quite a bit. An example of refurbished electronics I saw in the news the other day here in Denmark is http://www.brugteiphones.dk/ http://www.brugteiphones.dk/ buying up old broken iphones, repairing and selling them, they seem to be growing pretty fast.
- danieldk 12y ago
  The norm where I live seems to be to purchase new computers, smartphones, etc. every 6-24 months (phones more often compared to computers). While a computer can last a decade for most consumers, especially with the long support cycles of Windows and/or Linux' support for low-end hardware, phones are pretty much obsolete in no time: they don't get security updates, apps become unbearable (since their developers have the latest & greatest), etc. Planned obsolescence. This is one of the reasons that I argue that e.g. the EU should intervene. Phone manufactures and/or carriers should at the very least provide security updates for a reasonable period. Another option would be to make unlocked boot loaders mandatory, so that consumers can easily replace firmware.
onion2k 12y ago
The people of the countries that violate agreements, or that don't ratify the agreements in the first place, voting their politicians out of power and replacing them with politicians who believe being a good citizen of the world is more important than making a quick profit or offloading problems on to other countries. If voting doesn't work then bloody revolution could be an option.
vetler 12y ago
Stricter laws on proper recycling?
- seunosewa 12y ago
  Apparently only a fraction of the waste is recyclable, so if it isn't dumped there it may have to be dumped somewhere else...
  - sjtrny 12y ago
    Rubbish. Almost everything is recycleable. The cost of recycling almost everything at the moment is just massively lower than dumping it.
    - ptaipale 12y ago
      You mean higher, not lower?
      - sjtrny 12y ago
        Yes.
    - aidos 12y ago
      I'm going through an extremely frustrating experience at the moment in that I have a washing machine that's just died. It's only 3 years old and just out of warranty - other than the bearings that need replacing, it's in perfect health. Naturally, I order the bearings I need and start taking the machine to bits. Low and behold, the tub, which can traditionally be split and bolted back together again is now sealed so you can't service it. Now I have the choice of buying a whole new tub assembly (including drum and bearings), at £200, or just buying a whole new machine. But really, I have little choice in the situation. A new machine won't cost much more but will come with a 3-5 year warranty. As a consumer, I only have one reasonable choice to make - but it's the one that's totally wasteful.
      - 12y ago
acomjean 12y ago
Government regulation and laws. Really with pollution the incentive in capitalism is to just pollute, and not deal with waste properly. It is cheaper almost always and following regulations if they even exist usually eats into profit. I used to work for an environmental engineering firm that had to do some site clean-ups in a previous career. Companies hate being forced to pay to clean up their messes, its one of the big incentives not to pollute, as that certainly eats into profits. creating less waste is a good goal too (shaving weight from a phone your going to sell millions of saves a lot of resources) or as a consumer buying less means you'll throw away less (swap in an ssd for your hard drive to keep that computer another year..). Computers and phones keep getting better and better (more energy efficient too), so there is a strong motivation to upgrade (although this is less stong then it used to be).
- ptaipale 12y ago
  Yep, government regulation and laws. The question is: which government? Normally one would expect that in the areas were this work is done, the local governments take care of environmental and work safety regulations and laws. But they don't - due to greed, corruption and whatever. So should, for example, OECD countries forbid export of electric waste to non-OECD countries, to enforce proper disposal of hazardous materials and recycling? I don't have very clear answers to this, because there are obvious reasons both ways (do we want to exclude poor countries from the world markets?). But I think it is a good question.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    There are existig laws to prevent e-waste dumping -- most of the e-waste from the EU in Agbogbloshie was illegally exported. http://www.euractiv.com/sustainability/new-law-seeks-limit-dumping-wast-news-514282 http://www.euractiv.com/sustainability/new-law-seeks-limit-d...
    - ptaipale 12y ago
      Yes, in addition to laws and regulations, there needs to be enforcement, otherwise they do nothing.
pjc50 12y ago
The EU's WEEE is supposed to be the solution to this. It imposes requirements on manufacturers and distributors to take back discarded products: http://www.valpak.co.uk/compliance-services/weee http://www.valpak.co.uk/compliance-services/weee The actual implementation is a bit more fraught e.g. http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/66826-wholesalers-own-weee-charge.html http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general... (supposed to be free for domestic purposes and therefore "invisible", but not necessarily for commercial). Especially in a context of phasing out the easily disposable incandescent bulbs in favour of CCFL or LED which aren't so safe to landfill. Once the products have been returned they're supposed to be recycled. No doubt some of them end up being shipped to Ghana even though this is not supposed to happen. Ultimately the solution is longer-lasting less obsolete products, but that's "bad for the economy" when the economy is transaction-focused.

If people would only stop buying stuff they don't need, but that seems to be the driving force of the modern consumer society. The norm where I live seems to be to purchase new computers, smartphones, etc. every 6-24 months (phones more often compared to computers). Whereas the more frugal people I know mostly purchase new electronics when the old item has truly and utterly died without the possibility of repair. But assuming that will not change in the near future it seems that selling refurbished electronics at cheaper prices as well as improving the manufacturing process to use less toxic materials, could help quite a bit. An example of refurbished electronics I saw in the news the other day here in Denmark is http://www.brugteiphones.dk/ http://www.brugteiphones.dk/ buying up old broken iphones, repairing and selling them, they seem to be growing pretty fast.

danieldk 12y ago
The norm where I live seems to be to purchase new computers, smartphones, etc. every 6-24 months (phones more often compared to computers). While a computer can last a decade for most consumers, especially with the long support cycles of Windows and/or Linux' support for low-end hardware, phones are pretty much obsolete in no time: they don't get security updates, apps become unbearable (since their developers have the latest & greatest), etc. Planned obsolescence. This is one of the reasons that I argue that e.g. the EU should intervene. Phone manufactures and/or carriers should at the very least provide security updates for a reasonable period. Another option would be to make unlocked boot loaders mandatory, so that consumers can easily replace firmware.

onion2k 12y ago

The people of the countries that violate agreements, or that don't ratify the agreements in the first place, voting their politicians out of power and replacing them with politicians who believe being a good citizen of the world is more important than making a quick profit or offloading problems on to other countries. If voting doesn't work then bloody revolution could be an option.

vetler 12y ago

Stricter laws on proper recycling?

seunosewa 12y ago
Apparently only a fraction of the waste is recyclable, so if it isn't dumped there it may have to be dumped somewhere else...
- sjtrny 12y ago
  Rubbish. Almost everything is recycleable. The cost of recycling almost everything at the moment is just massively lower than dumping it.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    You mean higher, not lower?
    - sjtrny 12y ago
      Yes.
  - aidos 12y ago
    I'm going through an extremely frustrating experience at the moment in that I have a washing machine that's just died. It's only 3 years old and just out of warranty - other than the bearings that need replacing, it's in perfect health. Naturally, I order the bearings I need and start taking the machine to bits. Low and behold, the tub, which can traditionally be split and bolted back together again is now sealed so you can't service it. Now I have the choice of buying a whole new tub assembly (including drum and bearings), at £200, or just buying a whole new machine. But really, I have little choice in the situation. A new machine won't cost much more but will come with a 3-5 year warranty. As a consumer, I only have one reasonable choice to make - but it's the one that's totally wasteful.
    - 12y ago

acomjean 12y ago

Government regulation and laws. Really with pollution the incentive in capitalism is to just pollute, and not deal with waste properly. It is cheaper almost always and following regulations if they even exist usually eats into profit. I used to work for an environmental engineering firm that had to do some site clean-ups in a previous career. Companies hate being forced to pay to clean up their messes, its one of the big incentives not to pollute, as that certainly eats into profits. creating less waste is a good goal too (shaving weight from a phone your going to sell millions of saves a lot of resources) or as a consumer buying less means you'll throw away less (swap in an ssd for your hard drive to keep that computer another year..). Computers and phones keep getting better and better (more energy efficient too), so there is a strong motivation to upgrade (although this is less stong then it used to be).

ptaipale 12y ago
Yep, government regulation and laws. The question is: which government? Normally one would expect that in the areas were this work is done, the local governments take care of environmental and work safety regulations and laws. But they don't - due to greed, corruption and whatever. So should, for example, OECD countries forbid export of electric waste to non-OECD countries, to enforce proper disposal of hazardous materials and recycling? I don't have very clear answers to this, because there are obvious reasons both ways (do we want to exclude poor countries from the world markets?). But I think it is a good question.
- DanBC 12y ago
  There are existig laws to prevent e-waste dumping -- most of the e-waste from the EU in Agbogbloshie was illegally exported. http://www.euractiv.com/sustainability/new-law-seeks-limit-dumping-wast-news-514282 http://www.euractiv.com/sustainability/new-law-seeks-limit-d...
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    Yes, in addition to laws and regulations, there needs to be enforcement, otherwise they do nothing.

pjc50 12y ago

The EU's WEEE is supposed to be the solution to this. It imposes requirements on manufacturers and distributors to take back discarded products: http://www.valpak.co.uk/compliance-services/weee http://www.valpak.co.uk/compliance-services/weee The actual implementation is a bit more fraught e.g. http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/66826-wholesalers-own-weee-charge.html http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general... (supposed to be free for domestic purposes and therefore "invisible", but not necessarily for commercial). Especially in a context of phasing out the easily disposable incandescent bulbs in favour of CCFL or LED which aren't so safe to landfill. Once the products have been returned they're supposed to be recycled. No doubt some of them end up being shipped to Ghana even though this is not supposed to happen. Ultimately the solution is longer-lasting less obsolete products, but that's "bad for the economy" when the economy is transaction-focused.