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I can't see how a black person with any dignity would feel pride about being "accepted" into Harvard with less qualifications than his peers of the last 100 yea

I can't see how a black person with any dignity would feel pride about being "accepted" into Harvard with less qualifications than his peers of the last 100 years. As a black person who was accepted to (and graduated from) MIT, and had SAT scores less than my peers (but excellent grades and extracurriculars) allow me to respond: I feel fine.

jasode 12y ago
If you had "excellent grades" (GPA), you're not the example of watered down academic standards for admittance that I was talking about. Your MIT peers had excellent grades and so did you. You got admitted without some artificial lowering of standards to mirror a 13%-black-ratio of the population at large. I'm sure some Caucasian MIT students had lower SAT scores than you as well. As a whole, all the students at MIT had legitimate academic chops to get admitted. MIT doesn't have football scholarships like the University of North Carolina academic scandal.
- Anechoic 12y ago
  you're not the example of watered down academic standards for admittance that I was talking about At tend to give as much credence to those "example[s] of watered down academic standards" at elite universities as I do to welfare queens driving Cadillacs. MIT doesn't have football scholarships like the North Carolina academic scandal. Interesting fact: MIT coaches do have input into the admissions process. The NC scandal was not about reducing admission standards in the name of discrimination, it was about stacking athletic teams. That's a whole different (and real) topic than this thread, especially since your post referred to Harvard.
  - jasode 12y ago
    >At tend to give as much credence to those "example[s] of watered down academic standards" at elite universities as I do to welfare queens driving Cadillacs. Understood. However, you're addressing something I didn't say. I wasn't accusing elite universities of dumbing down existing standards. I was talking about about how the universities would hypothetically have to lower the academic thresholds to fulfill someone's idea that 13% of Ivy Leagues should be black to mirror the 13% in the general population. >, it was about stacking athletic teams. Right. But, what's the reason-behind-the-reason that it gets framed as "stacking athletes" so that it looks like it has nothing to do with academics? In reality, it's the academics (or fiction of it) that made it a scandal in the first place. Let's remember that it's a football scholarship. It's supposed to be scholars who go to school and happen to use football participation to pay for tuition. For many reasons (societal, circuses & bread, etc), it has mutated into athletes who need to fake the academic process to play for the school. Since society has not embraced an alternative structure for 19-year olds to play televised minor-league football outside of college institutions, that's how academics got twisted to fit a non-educational agenda. Football isn't getting in the way of school; it's school that is getting in the way of football. As for making the black percentages at ivy leagues match the population at large, I'm not exactly sure what the other posters who dismiss SAT + GPA + AP course transcripts are proposing. If elite schools are academic institutions (instead of unpaid football teams), and SAT+GPA+AP classes are cultural discrimination, what do they propose the schools look at? The color of the skin? If football doesn't have much to do with academic qualifications, the amount of pigment in the skin doesn't either. You're black -- and you got into MIT. You had the academic qualifications. Is there something you're debating that I missed or are we agreeing?
    - kevin_thibedeau 12y ago
      A local news station recently did a piece on a former basketball player brought in on scholarship to the local big U who was functionally illiterate. He seems to have had enough resolve to turn himself around but it baffles me how someone like that could be expected to be a "scholar athlete" when they are incapable of college level scholarship. It also speaks to the failure of secondary education that high schools will issue diplomas to unprepared students solely to keep their graduation rates up.
    - Anechoic 12y ago
      You're black -- and you got into MIT. You had the academic qualifications. Is there something you're debating that I missed or are we agreeing? I know of students with better grades and SAT results that were not admitted to MIT. I know of students with worse grades than me that were admitted to MIT. MIT considers many factors. Based on my experience there, that is a good thing, YMMV.
      - dennisgorelik 12y ago
        > I know of students with better grades and SAT results that were not admitted to MIT. Were they Black, Asian or White? > I know of students with worse grades than me Were they Black, Asian or White?
        Anechoic 12y ago
        Were they Black, Asian or White? Asian and white. Were they Black, Asian or White? All of the above.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    I don't know what "stacking athletic teams" means, but the NC football scandal that I'm familiar with involved the school providing fake classes for their football players, to maintain the illusion that they were "student-athletes" instead of just "athletes".
yequalsx 12y ago
Your response was on point, concise and well made. I was going to craft a many paragraph response but yours summed up the essence of mine in far fewer sentences. Well done.
dennisgorelik 12y ago
How would you feel if Asian claimed to be African-american (in order to get bonus points)?
- Anechoic 12y ago
  If said Asian did it in an attempt specifically to bolster his/her admissions chances, I'll feel the same way I would feel if that applicant reported a fraudulent extracurricular activity on their application.
  - dennisgorelik 12y ago
    Why do you think it would be a fraud? Isn't race self-reported anyway? What exactly qualifies you as an African-american that people who you or I qualify as Asian - can not legally claim?

jasode 12y ago

If you had "excellent grades" (GPA), you're not the example of watered down academic standards for admittance that I was talking about. Your MIT peers had excellent grades and so did you. You got admitted without some artificial lowering of standards to mirror a 13%-black-ratio of the population at large. I'm sure some Caucasian MIT students had lower SAT scores than you as well. As a whole, all the students at MIT had legitimate academic chops to get admitted. MIT doesn't have football scholarships like the University of North Carolina academic scandal.

Anechoic 12y ago
you're not the example of watered down academic standards for admittance that I was talking about At tend to give as much credence to those "example[s] of watered down academic standards" at elite universities as I do to welfare queens driving Cadillacs. MIT doesn't have football scholarships like the North Carolina academic scandal. Interesting fact: MIT coaches do have input into the admissions process. The NC scandal was not about reducing admission standards in the name of discrimination, it was about stacking athletic teams. That's a whole different (and real) topic than this thread, especially since your post referred to Harvard.
- jasode 12y ago
  >At tend to give as much credence to those "example[s] of watered down academic standards" at elite universities as I do to welfare queens driving Cadillacs. Understood. However, you're addressing something I didn't say. I wasn't accusing elite universities of dumbing down existing standards. I was talking about about how the universities would hypothetically have to lower the academic thresholds to fulfill someone's idea that 13% of Ivy Leagues should be black to mirror the 13% in the general population. >, it was about stacking athletic teams. Right. But, what's the reason-behind-the-reason that it gets framed as "stacking athletes" so that it looks like it has nothing to do with academics? In reality, it's the academics (or fiction of it) that made it a scandal in the first place. Let's remember that it's a football scholarship. It's supposed to be scholars who go to school and happen to use football participation to pay for tuition. For many reasons (societal, circuses & bread, etc), it has mutated into athletes who need to fake the academic process to play for the school. Since society has not embraced an alternative structure for 19-year olds to play televised minor-league football outside of college institutions, that's how academics got twisted to fit a non-educational agenda. Football isn't getting in the way of school; it's school that is getting in the way of football. As for making the black percentages at ivy leagues match the population at large, I'm not exactly sure what the other posters who dismiss SAT + GPA + AP course transcripts are proposing. If elite schools are academic institutions (instead of unpaid football teams), and SAT+GPA+AP classes are cultural discrimination, what do they propose the schools look at? The color of the skin? If football doesn't have much to do with academic qualifications, the amount of pigment in the skin doesn't either. You're black -- and you got into MIT. You had the academic qualifications. Is there something you're debating that I missed or are we agreeing?
  - kevin_thibedeau 12y ago
    A local news station recently did a piece on a former basketball player brought in on scholarship to the local big U who was functionally illiterate. He seems to have had enough resolve to turn himself around but it baffles me how someone like that could be expected to be a "scholar athlete" when they are incapable of college level scholarship. It also speaks to the failure of secondary education that high schools will issue diplomas to unprepared students solely to keep their graduation rates up.
  - Anechoic 12y ago
    You're black -- and you got into MIT. You had the academic qualifications. Is there something you're debating that I missed or are we agreeing? I know of students with better grades and SAT results that were not admitted to MIT. I know of students with worse grades than me that were admitted to MIT. MIT considers many factors. Based on my experience there, that is a good thing, YMMV.
    - dennisgorelik 12y ago
      > I know of students with better grades and SAT results that were not admitted to MIT. Were they Black, Asian or White? > I know of students with worse grades than me Were they Black, Asian or White?
      - Anechoic 12y ago
        Were they Black, Asian or White? Asian and white. Were they Black, Asian or White? All of the above.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  I don't know what "stacking athletic teams" means, but the NC football scandal that I'm familiar with involved the school providing fake classes for their football players, to maintain the illusion that they were "student-athletes" instead of just "athletes".

yequalsx 12y ago

Your response was on point, concise and well made. I was going to craft a many paragraph response but yours summed up the essence of mine in far fewer sentences. Well done.

dennisgorelik 12y ago

How would you feel if Asian claimed to be African-american (in order to get bonus points)?

Anechoic 12y ago
If said Asian did it in an attempt specifically to bolster his/her admissions chances, I'll feel the same way I would feel if that applicant reported a fraudulent extracurricular activity on their application.
- dennisgorelik 12y ago
  Why do you think it would be a fraud? Isn't race self-reported anyway? What exactly qualifies you as an African-american that people who you or I qualify as Asian - can not legally claim?