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From what I can see, their customers were happy, they made money, and it was all above-board, let alone legal. Clearly, something must be wrong! I have to say,

From what I can see, their customers were happy, they made money, and it was all above-board, let alone legal. Clearly, something must be wrong! I have to say, I'm even more amused by people's outrage at these winning tactics than by the tactics themselves. I begin to understand why it's necessary to have an entire class in entrepreneurship. Perhaps it is largely about training people not to be pinned, like hapless chess pieces, by the force of trivial preconceptions.

Tichy 17y ago
"their customers were happy" The people who got a reservation, maybe, but what about the people who didn't get one? Maybe a good business idea would be to sell kidneys that one steals from traveling students. I am sure the customers would be happy, too.
- mechanical_fish 17y ago
  I'm assuming, based on the teacher's description (which involved "those little buzzers" and the concept of "trading one buzzer for another"), that these "reservations" they were selling were in fact "places in line". [1] If you built a business around selling reservations at a reservation-only restaurant, where the typical reservation was made days in advance and they were handed out in fixed quantity, I would have more... reservations about the business, as you do. [2] But places in line? Everybody "gets one". The question is: Where is it, and how much would you pay to trade with the person ahead of you? If I walked up to someone holding a buzzy coaster at a local restaurant and offered them $20 to trade coasters with me, would you be morally offended? Would they necessarily be unhappy? Yes, I agree that if every place in line is for sale the whole thing gets tremendously painful for the people who arrive late and don't want to engage in a commodities-trading session before dinner. But what if only one in every 20 places is for sale? If someone doesn't arrive -- no problem, everyone else moves up. And, really, the kidney thing is unfair on several levels. For one thing, it's a cheap shot. If you want to take a moral stand on the sanctity of restaurant reservations, do so with pride! Don't feel the need to pretend that your debate opponents are also against motherhood, apple pie, and life itself. For another, it's a different problem. The laws against paying for donor organs are in place because the market for donor organs is worlds different from the market for restaurant seats: You can't open up new sources of donor organs the way you open up a new restaurant [3], and the difference between the best chef and the second-best chef is smaller (in quantity and in kind) than the difference between one kidney and zero kidneys. Nobody dies if they don't get a seat at their favorite restaurant and have to eat at -- gasp! -- the International House of Pancakes down the street. --- [1] We don't really have another name for this, do we? I've been burned by this hole in our lexicon before. Me: "Do you take reservations?" Restaurant: "Yes." Me: "Can I make a reservation?" Restaurant: "No, we don't take them over the phone. We give them out as you arrive." [2] I can't believe I just wrote that, either. [3] Well, not unless you're Sweeney Todd. In which case you can do both at once!
  - Tichy 17y ago
    With the kidney example I really only wanted to demonstrate that "the customers are happy" can not be the only criterion for ethical businesses.
  - eru 17y ago
    I heard that in India it's a common occupation to wait in lines and sell one's place.
pyre 17y ago
If I take a job as a hit man, and I always manage to kill my targets I am also making my customers happy, but I would hardly claim that I was being ethical. {edit} To expand on that, the legality of what is being done doesn't matter either. There are many unethical things that are still legal (e.g. patent trolls, large companies burying competition through using the legal system as a money drain, suing someone for defamation/slander just to shut them up about something that is true but you don't want anyone to know about, etc). And it wasn't 'above the board' either, because it's not like they told the restaurant what they were doing. If I call ahead and book a table for two that I have no intention of using unless I can scalp/pawn it off on someone else, how am I being ethical by lying to the restaurant? {/edit}

Tichy 17y ago

"their customers were happy" The people who got a reservation, maybe, but what about the people who didn't get one? Maybe a good business idea would be to sell kidneys that one steals from traveling students. I am sure the customers would be happy, too.

mechanical_fish 17y ago
I'm assuming, based on the teacher's description (which involved "those little buzzers" and the concept of "trading one buzzer for another"), that these "reservations" they were selling were in fact "places in line". [1] If you built a business around selling reservations at a reservation-only restaurant, where the typical reservation was made days in advance and they were handed out in fixed quantity, I would have more... reservations about the business, as you do. [2] But places in line? Everybody "gets one". The question is: Where is it, and how much would you pay to trade with the person ahead of you? If I walked up to someone holding a buzzy coaster at a local restaurant and offered them $20 to trade coasters with me, would you be morally offended? Would they necessarily be unhappy? Yes, I agree that if every place in line is for sale the whole thing gets tremendously painful for the people who arrive late and don't want to engage in a commodities-trading session before dinner. But what if only one in every 20 places is for sale? If someone doesn't arrive -- no problem, everyone else moves up. And, really, the kidney thing is unfair on several levels. For one thing, it's a cheap shot. If you want to take a moral stand on the sanctity of restaurant reservations, do so with pride! Don't feel the need to pretend that your debate opponents are also against motherhood, apple pie, and life itself. For another, it's a different problem. The laws against paying for donor organs are in place because the market for donor organs is worlds different from the market for restaurant seats: You can't open up new sources of donor organs the way you open up a new restaurant [3], and the difference between the best chef and the second-best chef is smaller (in quantity and in kind) than the difference between one kidney and zero kidneys. Nobody dies if they don't get a seat at their favorite restaurant and have to eat at -- gasp! -- the International House of Pancakes down the street. --- [1] We don't really have another name for this, do we? I've been burned by this hole in our lexicon before. Me: "Do you take reservations?" Restaurant: "Yes." Me: "Can I make a reservation?" Restaurant: "No, we don't take them over the phone. We give them out as you arrive." [2] I can't believe I just wrote that, either. [3] Well, not unless you're Sweeney Todd. In which case you can do both at once!
- Tichy 17y ago
  With the kidney example I really only wanted to demonstrate that "the customers are happy" can not be the only criterion for ethical businesses.
- eru 17y ago
  I heard that in India it's a common occupation to wait in lines and sell one's place.

pyre 17y ago

If I take a job as a hit man, and I always manage to kill my targets I am also making my customers happy, but I would hardly claim that I was being ethical. {edit} To expand on that, the legality of what is being done doesn't matter either. There are many unethical things that are still legal (e.g. patent trolls, large companies burying competition through using the legal system as a money drain, suing someone for defamation/slander just to shut them up about something that is true but you don't want anyone to know about, etc). And it wasn't 'above the board' either, because it's not like they told the restaurant what they were doing. If I call ahead and book a table for two that I have no intention of using unless I can scalp/pawn it off on someone else, how am I being ethical by lying to the restaurant? {/edit}