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Because if the user chooses a bad passphrase (hint: he will) then his key will be compromised forever. Users will choose 'password'; they'll choose '12345'; th

by wtbob 12y ago

Because if the user chooses a bad passphrase (hint: he will) then his key will be compromised forever. Users will choose 'password'; they'll choose '12345'; they won't choose 'VPSJjNwytizY7vtGzRv208' or 'cZD2N49caaSYkDuWZMHuyiuKuk6AhA5jdC29g3moHmX' (128- and 256-bit, respectively).

zokier 12y ago
So make an app that creates random passphrases. You don't need completely new protocol for that.
- kaoD 12y ago
  As far as I can tell, that's exactly what TFA proposes (while also trying to be user-friendly). > You don't need completely new protocol for that. You need a protocol because protocols can be audited and built upon. User-interaction protocols are very much a part of crypto and, IMHO, trying to minimize the user-error surface is critical for cryptography's development. This is about bringing crypto to the average Joe. You think they're going to download several heterogeneous tools, learn to use them, devise their own security protocol... and also not mess anywhere in the process? I don't think so! If a protocol+app saves them the hassle and lowers the chance of mistakes, why not? Also, as they point in the article: > One could simply throw out the last 30 years of protocols like SMTP, IMAP and PGP and reinvent the wheel like DarkMail, but we at Whiteout believe in building on existing standards, since they aren't going away any time soon. This would merely be another layer at the stack.
- rakoo 12y ago
  A random passphrase you'll then need to enter on all your devices. Do you really think people will bother with that ?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
upperechelon 12y ago
Yeah but no user is ever going to be able to remember either of those passwords, even the website encourages people to write it down. So when the FBI raids Johnny's house and they find his post-it note next to his computer he's gonna be in a lot of trouble. And before you mention password management applications... that would also be a solution for the 'users pick bad passwords' problem
- wtbob 12y ago
  > Yeah but no user is ever going to be able to remember either of those passwords, No, of course not. User-memorable passwords should only be used on devices physically controlled by the user or someone the user trusts; high-security passwords must be used on any device outside of the user's control. It's okay to use the user's password to locally encrypt a secure key used to encrypt remote data.

by wtbob 12y ago

zokier 12y ago

So make an app that creates random passphrases. You don't need completely new protocol for that.

kaoD 12y ago
As far as I can tell, that's exactly what TFA proposes (while also trying to be user-friendly). > You don't need completely new protocol for that. You need a protocol because protocols can be audited and built upon. User-interaction protocols are very much a part of crypto and, IMHO, trying to minimize the user-error surface is critical for cryptography's development. This is about bringing crypto to the average Joe. You think they're going to download several heterogeneous tools, learn to use them, devise their own security protocol... and also not mess anywhere in the process? I don't think so! If a protocol+app saves them the hassle and lowers the chance of mistakes, why not? Also, as they point in the article: > One could simply throw out the last 30 years of protocols like SMTP, IMAP and PGP and reinvent the wheel like DarkMail, but we at Whiteout believe in building on existing standards, since they aren't going away any time soon. This would merely be another layer at the stack.
rakoo 12y ago
A random passphrase you'll then need to enter on all your devices. Do you really think people will bother with that ?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

upperechelon 12y ago

Yeah but no user is ever going to be able to remember either of those passwords, even the website encourages people to write it down. So when the FBI raids Johnny's house and they find his post-it note next to his computer he's gonna be in a lot of trouble. And before you mention password management applications... that would also be a solution for the 'users pick bad passwords' problem

wtbob 12y ago
> Yeah but no user is ever going to be able to remember either of those passwords, No, of course not. User-memorable passwords should only be used on devices physically controlled by the user or someone the user trusts; high-security passwords must be used on any device outside of the user's control. It's okay to use the user's password to locally encrypt a secure key used to encrypt remote data.