7 ms·

A friend of mine said that working at a corporation gives you the illusion of stability, and working as a freelancer gives you the illusion of freedom. I found

A friend of mine said that working at a corporation gives you the illusion of stability, and working as a freelancer gives you the illusion of freedom. I found that to be very true. Working freelance basically means that each client is a new boss. Each boss will want things from you and they don't know or care about the other bosses! So you have to be really good at juggling projects.

funkyy 12y ago
I cannot agree. Not every freelancer work with one boss at the time. I am a freelancer, but I sell my services to multiple buyers (few dozens) each month. I then outsource some of it to my team. I am able to keep prices low, but not low enough to start getting cheap demanding customers (you need to really work on your pricing to snatch mostly wealthy customers, that see your price like a discount, not cheap and that if anything goes wrong wont give you hard time about it). I don't mind if I lose 1 or even 10 customers and I tend to "fire customers" every month or two. That's freedom. And just to clarify - I am no a company - I still work a lot and I do the most important jobs myself. I also never blame my employees for delays etc - as employer expects me to deliver, not my employees. imo freedom is achievable as a freelancer only if you can fire your customers without going bankrupt and affecting your future finances to much.
- Frondo 12y ago
  If you have a team, you're no longer a freelancer, you're a business owner running an agency.
iolothebard 12y ago
The difference is you can fire clients. It's hard to fire bosses. Plus you should be seeking multiple revenue streams. The stability of a "job" comes from a regular paycheck and not having to do the work in addition to sales. Roughly 50% of the time working as a independent developer should be spent (IMO) working to add new clients and/or expand your revenue stream. If it gets to be too much work, you've now got a consulting company with people working under you (and the nightmare expands).
- EC1 12y ago
  The problem I've run into with terminating clients is that most of them feel that if the project was not 100% complete for what they paid, then nothing was done, so you end up in a huge mess of keeping the money they paid you already but suddenly feel entitled to.
  - ncallaway 12y ago
    Try breaking up projects into several milestones, where each milestone has a concrete deliverable that would be useful if they took it to another contractor. That way, they have valuable deliverables that they can take to another developer if you end up firing the client.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - iolothebard 12y ago
    This is why you have a work product that's got weekly deliverables you have them sign off on. Also you have them pay as frequently as you can get. Typically with contracts I have it done weekly. Tried monthly but that can get annoying.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - EC1 12y ago
      None of that matters to some. Nobody wants just a bunch of half working files they don't know what to do with.
      - nandreev 12y ago
        A certain video comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U
- jakejake 12y ago
ryanSrich 12y ago
Freelancing != Consulting. I think this is a huge issue with the article posted. Freelancing = Not so great jobs where clients dictate what they want (low pay) Consulting = Excellent jobs with clients that want you for your knowledge (much much higher pay) Making the leap is the difference between "building websites" and "building websites for a particular industry with a very specific technology that only a handful of people really know".
- curiously 12y ago
  > "building websites for a particular industry with a very specific technology that only a handful of people really know". Do you have an example of that in action? It would be interesting if we could see a freelancer's landing page vs consultant's landing page. A side by side comparison of what the differences are.
  - ryanSrich 12y ago
    Sure thing (note: some of these are consulting firms vs. agencies - which are really just scaled versions of consultants vs. freelancers): - consulting: http://www.nngroup.com/ http://www.nngroup.com/ - agency: http://www.akqa.com/ http://www.akqa.com/ - consulting: http://www.cooper.com/ http://www.cooper.com/ - agency: http://www.elpassion.com/ http://www.elpassion.com/ - consultant: http://andrewhinton.com/ http://andrewhinton.com/ - consultant: http://jessicahische.is/ http://jessicahische.is/ - freelancer: http://www.danielaa.me/ http://www.danielaa.me/ - freelancer: http://owltastic.com/ http://owltastic.com/ You'll see with the examples above that both the agencies (freelancers) and consulting firms (consultants) offer similar services. However the consultants are mostly focused on a small set of skills (research, UX, etc.) whereas the agencies keep it broader.
    - curiously 12y ago
      Thanks for that! I'm definitely seeing a pattern here. The consultants pages I immediately get a sense of the business value, there's a lot of focus on value that people can easily understand while the agencies and freelancer websites are specific languages, technologies, 'hire us', labor for money. It would be interesting to know if you gave an agency, freelancer, consultant the same project, what they would do different, what they would charge differently, what the output would be and the time frame. Is UX = User Experience? How do you self proclaim yourself that you are a UX/UI expert? What do these consultants do that is different from what a freelancer would do (ex. fixing UI, creating UI, using template UI, split testing). Is there value in using vague languages vs specific activity (ex. user experience optimization vs use a javascript library to split test and measure optimizations)? Agency vs Consultants is also an interesting comparison. Agencies seem much like Freelancer websites, fancy, artsy, will-do-anything-for-money while the consultants page seem more sane, narrowly focused and use much more business speak. For developers and freelancers, it would be nice if we can work with a business vocabulary. I think any freelancer can whip up a page like nngroup.com and present themselves as a consultant, or is there more to it than just the surface? So essentially it's a sales technique. On one end of the spectrum, highly technical, frameworks, languages, stuff technical people understand, solves technical labor, the value is reduced cost. On the other end of the spectrum, non technical, business centric, stuff non technical people understand and most technical people shun as 'bullshit' is actually aims to solve business problem or provide business values in a word they can understand and measure. It reminds me sort of like selling to different market segments with SaaS. On the lower end, you sell to the small guys, with small needs, price sensitive. On the enterprise end, you sell to large guys, with bigger needs, people's career depend on the success of the project, bigger pockets. So is it safe to conclude that becoming a 'consultant' is essentially you are now selling to people with money, people with business problems or needs, people who don't speak tech, thus the higher command in pay? I think it would be very helpful for technical people if we could learn the business linguo and training to speak client's language. I understand that not everyone is cut out for this but for those of that are, it would be extremely valuable to be able to speak and write in such manner.
dksidana 12y ago
to add on top of it: "working at a startup gives you the illusion of ownership"
stevebot 12y ago
While you mention freelancing, I have found this sentiment very true of consulting as well. You have multiple clients, all likely without knowledge or consideration of the others.It becomes very difficult to manage deadlines and expectations. It becomes an art of estimation and project management as well as consulting, which makes the work in my opinion very interesting.

funkyy 12y ago

I cannot agree. Not every freelancer work with one boss at the time. I am a freelancer, but I sell my services to multiple buyers (few dozens) each month. I then outsource some of it to my team. I am able to keep prices low, but not low enough to start getting cheap demanding customers (you need to really work on your pricing to snatch mostly wealthy customers, that see your price like a discount, not cheap and that if anything goes wrong wont give you hard time about it). I don't mind if I lose 1 or even 10 customers and I tend to "fire customers" every month or two. That's freedom. And just to clarify - I am no a company - I still work a lot and I do the most important jobs myself. I also never blame my employees for delays etc - as employer expects me to deliver, not my employees. imo freedom is achievable as a freelancer only if you can fire your customers without going bankrupt and affecting your future finances to much.

Frondo 12y ago
If you have a team, you're no longer a freelancer, you're a business owner running an agency.

iolothebard 12y ago

The difference is you can fire clients. It's hard to fire bosses. Plus you should be seeking multiple revenue streams. The stability of a "job" comes from a regular paycheck and not having to do the work in addition to sales. Roughly 50% of the time working as a independent developer should be spent (IMO) working to add new clients and/or expand your revenue stream. If it gets to be too much work, you've now got a consulting company with people working under you (and the nightmare expands).

EC1 12y ago
The problem I've run into with terminating clients is that most of them feel that if the project was not 100% complete for what they paid, then nothing was done, so you end up in a huge mess of keeping the money they paid you already but suddenly feel entitled to.
- ncallaway 12y ago
  Try breaking up projects into several milestones, where each milestone has a concrete deliverable that would be useful if they took it to another contractor. That way, they have valuable deliverables that they can take to another developer if you end up firing the client.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- iolothebard 12y ago
  This is why you have a work product that's got weekly deliverables you have them sign off on. Also you have them pay as frequently as you can get. Typically with contracts I have it done weekly. Tried monthly but that can get annoying.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - EC1 12y ago
    None of that matters to some. Nobody wants just a bunch of half working files they don't know what to do with.
    - nandreev 12y ago
      A certain video comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U
jakejake 12y ago

ryanSrich 12y ago

Freelancing != Consulting. I think this is a huge issue with the article posted. Freelancing = Not so great jobs where clients dictate what they want (low pay) Consulting = Excellent jobs with clients that want you for your knowledge (much much higher pay) Making the leap is the difference between "building websites" and "building websites for a particular industry with a very specific technology that only a handful of people really know".

curiously 12y ago
> "building websites for a particular industry with a very specific technology that only a handful of people really know". Do you have an example of that in action? It would be interesting if we could see a freelancer's landing page vs consultant's landing page. A side by side comparison of what the differences are.
- ryanSrich 12y ago
  Sure thing (note: some of these are consulting firms vs. agencies - which are really just scaled versions of consultants vs. freelancers): - consulting: http://www.nngroup.com/ http://www.nngroup.com/ - agency: http://www.akqa.com/ http://www.akqa.com/ - consulting: http://www.cooper.com/ http://www.cooper.com/ - agency: http://www.elpassion.com/ http://www.elpassion.com/ - consultant: http://andrewhinton.com/ http://andrewhinton.com/ - consultant: http://jessicahische.is/ http://jessicahische.is/ - freelancer: http://www.danielaa.me/ http://www.danielaa.me/ - freelancer: http://owltastic.com/ http://owltastic.com/ You'll see with the examples above that both the agencies (freelancers) and consulting firms (consultants) offer similar services. However the consultants are mostly focused on a small set of skills (research, UX, etc.) whereas the agencies keep it broader.
  - curiously 12y ago
    Thanks for that! I'm definitely seeing a pattern here. The consultants pages I immediately get a sense of the business value, there's a lot of focus on value that people can easily understand while the agencies and freelancer websites are specific languages, technologies, 'hire us', labor for money. It would be interesting to know if you gave an agency, freelancer, consultant the same project, what they would do different, what they would charge differently, what the output would be and the time frame. Is UX = User Experience? How do you self proclaim yourself that you are a UX/UI expert? What do these consultants do that is different from what a freelancer would do (ex. fixing UI, creating UI, using template UI, split testing). Is there value in using vague languages vs specific activity (ex. user experience optimization vs use a javascript library to split test and measure optimizations)? Agency vs Consultants is also an interesting comparison. Agencies seem much like Freelancer websites, fancy, artsy, will-do-anything-for-money while the consultants page seem more sane, narrowly focused and use much more business speak. For developers and freelancers, it would be nice if we can work with a business vocabulary. I think any freelancer can whip up a page like nngroup.com and present themselves as a consultant, or is there more to it than just the surface? So essentially it's a sales technique. On one end of the spectrum, highly technical, frameworks, languages, stuff technical people understand, solves technical labor, the value is reduced cost. On the other end of the spectrum, non technical, business centric, stuff non technical people understand and most technical people shun as 'bullshit' is actually aims to solve business problem or provide business values in a word they can understand and measure. It reminds me sort of like selling to different market segments with SaaS. On the lower end, you sell to the small guys, with small needs, price sensitive. On the enterprise end, you sell to large guys, with bigger needs, people's career depend on the success of the project, bigger pockets. So is it safe to conclude that becoming a 'consultant' is essentially you are now selling to people with money, people with business problems or needs, people who don't speak tech, thus the higher command in pay? I think it would be very helpful for technical people if we could learn the business linguo and training to speak client's language. I understand that not everyone is cut out for this but for those of that are, it would be extremely valuable to be able to speak and write in such manner.

dksidana 12y ago

to add on top of it: "working at a startup gives you the illusion of ownership"

stevebot 12y ago

While you mention freelancing, I have found this sentiment very true of consulting as well. You have multiple clients, all likely without knowledge or consideration of the others.It becomes very difficult to manage deadlines and expectations. It becomes an art of estimation and project management as well as consulting, which makes the work in my opinion very interesting.