6 ms·

I has always amazed me how much effort goes into technological attempts to reverse a condition that can be reliably prevented and even reversed in the overwhelm

I has always amazed me how much effort goes into technological attempts to reverse a condition that can be reliably prevented and even reversed in the overwhelming majority of sufferers up until fairly late stages by simply eating less. Eating less is so amazingly unpopular that people would rather suffer and die waiting on therapies than do the one thing already known to work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13887909 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13887909 An extreme eight-week diet of 600 calories a day can reverse Type 2 diabetes in people newly diagnosed with the disease. http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/dme.12722 http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/dme.12722 In people with Type 2 diabetes of more than 8 years' duration, a therapeutic trial of a very-low-calorie diet may be undertaken with a 50% chance of achieving non-diabetic fasting glucose levels, with all other antidiabetic therapies discontinued.

ymra 12y ago
"More research is needed to see whether the reversal is permanent, say experts." A single small trial isn't something to base medical advice around.
- niels_olson 12y ago
  Great point. As a matter of fact, parachutes have never had a randomized controlled trial. They should be avoided also.
  - voronoff 12y ago
    Engineering != science || medicine. It can be used in both, and can use science, but that doesn't make it the same thing. P.S. http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1524537 http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1524537 is a study on parachute effectiveness
  - ymra 12y ago
    If you want to base your life around the results of single, small scale studies, that's your choice. But I've seen too many studies that seemed impressive, but when people set out to replicate the the study, they failed to get the same results. This is not rare, it happens frequently.
    - niels_olson 12y ago
      Before I went into medicine, I too might have missed the point I was making, which is that eating less almost certainly reverses the vast, vast majority of type 2 diabetes. I mean, within a day. Americans eat so much they think overeating is normal. Bariatric patients (morbidly obese people getting their stomach essentially amputated, see Roux-en-Y) are generally told to fast for 24 hours prior to surgery. Their glucose levels before surgery are often normal, for the first time in decades. The association between food intake and obesity is far, far stronger than cigarettes and lung cancer, even stronger than Hep B and hepatocellular carcinoma. Asserting that eating less (and I do mean significantly less) needs to be studied more is like saying we should hold off on parachute use until more studies are done.
AlisdairO 12y ago
The debilitating effects of alcoholism can be prevented by 'simply' not consuming alcohol. The fact that the physical actions necessary to achieve an outcome are simple does not mean that enacting them is.
NWDrew72 12y ago
Our ancestors were on the brink of starvation for most of history; only for a small slice of time have we* had caloric abundance. Humans turn to eating when facing all kinds of physical and emotional stressors; "simply eating less" is simplistic logic that doesn't hold water in practice. *not everyone, of course.
adl 12y ago
Eating healthy is incredibly difficult in western society, and if you are suffering from Type 2 diabetes caused by lifestyle , chances are you already suffering from some kind of food addiction. "Just eat less" is not a very helpful answer, it's incredibly frustrating to hear, believe me. When your blood sugar is in the 60s or 50s range from trying like hell to do your diet all day, reason goes out the window and 'mere' will power is not enough. It takes a lot of effort, lots of planning (preparing food, planning what, where and when to eat, snacks, etc) and a LOT of information (nutrition, insulin effects on the body, pros and cons of current 'fad' diets, etc) which takes a while to collect, also, lots of trial an error. It doesn't help that most doctors, are clueless regarding healthy eating.
- seekingtruth 12y ago
  >Eating healthy is incredibly difficult in western society, This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this site. Fresh, healthy, affordable food has never been more accessible to any society. >"Just eat less" is not a very helpful answer, it's incredibly frustrating to hear, believe me. Eating less is the only thing that works. You only find this advice unhelpful because it's hard. But the reason it's hard is because you've trained yourself to overeat and now you have to break that habit, a habit that has its psychological and physiological meathooks in you. People who haven't lived their entire lives stuffing themselves to the bursting point have no problems autoregulating. I mean, shit, my cat can manage it. >It takes a lot of effort, lots of planning (preparing food, planning what, where and when to eat, snacks, etc) and a LOT of information (nutrition, insulin effects on the body, pros and cons of current 'fad' diets, etc) which takes a while to collect, also, lots of trial an error. You sound like a pathetic whiny snot who has embraced a life of learned helplessness.
  - AlisdairO 12y ago
    Is there anything you find hard?
    - seekingtruth 12y ago
      Deadlifts. That's why I do them.
JamesBarney 12y ago
If humans had perfect control of their actions we would have far fewer problems, type 2 diabetes being the least of them. You're body tries very hard to make sure you have enough nutrition. It increases hunger and reduces will power, and most long term research on diet based obesity/diabetes intervention shows that they have terrible effectiveness rates.
seekingtruth 12y ago
Lots of fatties giving you the business in this thread.
- AlisdairO 12y ago
  Not overweight, but I was obese ten years ago. Not overeating remains overwhelmingly the biggest challenge in my life - one that I struggle with every day, and that I fail at as often as I succeed. On the other hand, I'm good at stuff that many other people find difficult. What I learned from those many years of being fat is that my experience is not the same as everyone else's. Just because I find it simple to not drink doesn't mean it's the same for an alcoholic. Just because I'm a completer-finisher type doesn't mean it's easy for someone else to slog through writing their thesis. Just because being happy is a default state of mind for me, doesn't mean a depressive can just flip a switch like that. I might, if asked, tell an alcoholic that they need to stop drinking, or a fat person that they need to lose weight, or a procrastinator that they need to finish their work - but I'll try not to be arrogant enough to tell them that the solution is obvious, that it's easy. How the hell would I know what's easy for them?

ymra 12y ago

"More research is needed to see whether the reversal is permanent, say experts." A single small trial isn't something to base medical advice around.

niels_olson 12y ago
Great point. As a matter of fact, parachutes have never had a randomized controlled trial. They should be avoided also.
- voronoff 12y ago
  Engineering != science || medicine. It can be used in both, and can use science, but that doesn't make it the same thing. P.S. http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1524537 http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1524537 is a study on parachute effectiveness
- ymra 12y ago
  If you want to base your life around the results of single, small scale studies, that's your choice. But I've seen too many studies that seemed impressive, but when people set out to replicate the the study, they failed to get the same results. This is not rare, it happens frequently.
  - niels_olson 12y ago
    Before I went into medicine, I too might have missed the point I was making, which is that eating less almost certainly reverses the vast, vast majority of type 2 diabetes. I mean, within a day. Americans eat so much they think overeating is normal. Bariatric patients (morbidly obese people getting their stomach essentially amputated, see Roux-en-Y) are generally told to fast for 24 hours prior to surgery. Their glucose levels before surgery are often normal, for the first time in decades. The association between food intake and obesity is far, far stronger than cigarettes and lung cancer, even stronger than Hep B and hepatocellular carcinoma. Asserting that eating less (and I do mean significantly less) needs to be studied more is like saying we should hold off on parachute use until more studies are done.

AlisdairO 12y ago

The debilitating effects of alcoholism can be prevented by 'simply' not consuming alcohol. The fact that the physical actions necessary to achieve an outcome are simple does not mean that enacting them is.

NWDrew72 12y ago

Our ancestors were on the brink of starvation for most of history; only for a small slice of time have we* had caloric abundance. Humans turn to eating when facing all kinds of physical and emotional stressors; "simply eating less" is simplistic logic that doesn't hold water in practice. *not everyone, of course.

adl 12y ago

Eating healthy is incredibly difficult in western society, and if you are suffering from Type 2 diabetes caused by lifestyle , chances are you already suffering from some kind of food addiction. "Just eat less" is not a very helpful answer, it's incredibly frustrating to hear, believe me. When your blood sugar is in the 60s or 50s range from trying like hell to do your diet all day, reason goes out the window and 'mere' will power is not enough. It takes a lot of effort, lots of planning (preparing food, planning what, where and when to eat, snacks, etc) and a LOT of information (nutrition, insulin effects on the body, pros and cons of current 'fad' diets, etc) which takes a while to collect, also, lots of trial an error. It doesn't help that most doctors, are clueless regarding healthy eating.

seekingtruth 12y ago
>Eating healthy is incredibly difficult in western society, This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this site. Fresh, healthy, affordable food has never been more accessible to any society. >"Just eat less" is not a very helpful answer, it's incredibly frustrating to hear, believe me. Eating less is the only thing that works. You only find this advice unhelpful because it's hard. But the reason it's hard is because you've trained yourself to overeat and now you have to break that habit, a habit that has its psychological and physiological meathooks in you. People who haven't lived their entire lives stuffing themselves to the bursting point have no problems autoregulating. I mean, shit, my cat can manage it. >It takes a lot of effort, lots of planning (preparing food, planning what, where and when to eat, snacks, etc) and a LOT of information (nutrition, insulin effects on the body, pros and cons of current 'fad' diets, etc) which takes a while to collect, also, lots of trial an error. You sound like a pathetic whiny snot who has embraced a life of learned helplessness.
- AlisdairO 12y ago
  Is there anything you find hard?
  - seekingtruth 12y ago
    Deadlifts. That's why I do them.

JamesBarney 12y ago

If humans had perfect control of their actions we would have far fewer problems, type 2 diabetes being the least of them. You're body tries very hard to make sure you have enough nutrition. It increases hunger and reduces will power, and most long term research on diet based obesity/diabetes intervention shows that they have terrible effectiveness rates.

seekingtruth 12y ago

Lots of fatties giving you the business in this thread.

AlisdairO 12y ago
Not overweight, but I was obese ten years ago. Not overeating remains overwhelmingly the biggest challenge in my life - one that I struggle with every day, and that I fail at as often as I succeed. On the other hand, I'm good at stuff that many other people find difficult. What I learned from those many years of being fat is that my experience is not the same as everyone else's. Just because I find it simple to not drink doesn't mean it's the same for an alcoholic. Just because I'm a completer-finisher type doesn't mean it's easy for someone else to slog through writing their thesis. Just because being happy is a default state of mind for me, doesn't mean a depressive can just flip a switch like that. I might, if asked, tell an alcoholic that they need to stop drinking, or a fat person that they need to lose weight, or a procrastinator that they need to finish their work - but I'll try not to be arrogant enough to tell them that the solution is obvious, that it's easy. How the hell would I know what's easy for them?