8 ms·

Paperize – Beautiful Card Game Prototypes

131 points by Rabidgremlin 12y ago

strict9 12y ago
Very disappointing to hit a landing pages with video that only collects email addresses.
- lorennorman 12y ago
  Sorry to disappoint! We didn't post this to HN, but I can see how the title here is misleading.
  - Rabidgremlin 12y ago
    Oops... I posted it because I thought it was a great idea/presso/product and the HN community would be a good place to get feedback from. Apologies if it was premature!
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      Not at all and thank you so much!
      - Rabidgremlin 12y ago
        No problem. You could always bump me up the early access list in return :)
  - strict9 12y ago
    Disappointed only because it looks interesting. Also, I think many people have been burned by email address harvesting pages that have great ideas but never materialized.
woebtz 12y ago
Beautiful tool! Something seems unfinished with the column-to-position associations. Maybe they need some more style to communicate the purpose a bit clearer? (e.g. representing the columns-to-positions in a table style, or more vertical padding separation, or referencing positions by letter (A, B, C, etc.) instead of by #).
- lorennorman 12y ago
  We would agree. The UI itself is still evolving rapidly, the core functionality just finally came together and got useful. Ideally, we get feedback during this process that helps us nail down the most important workflows and give it a serious UX paint job.
  - kenbellows 12y ago
    That particular feature seems sort of backwards to me; might just be me, but I think it might be more straightforward to list the places you can put things on the template and have a <select> allowing you to pick columns from your CSV for each spot (default to nothing in a spot)
  - AndrewDucker 12y ago
    It would be great to automatically match columns where the names are the same (like "Image").
rikkus 12y ago
Nice clean app design. What are you using to render PDFs?
- lorennorman 12y ago
  Right now it is Prawn[0]. It slowly evolved from a script a year ago, where it was fine. We are considering switching to an HTML->PDF workflow, though, since I have to render all of this stuff in the web for quicker previews anyway! Thanks for the clean design mention, we owe it mostly to Zurb Foundation[1]. Using those modal popovers to control the user's attention has really helped me narrow the UI variables. 0: http://prawnpdf.org http://prawnpdf.org 1: http://foundation.zurb.com http://foundation.zurb.com
  - patio11 12y ago
    Stick with Prawn, as it is sanity saving for this task. For web based previews, use GraphicsMagick and Postscript to turn the PDF into a gif or image. One command line, takes half a second. Saves you from doing CSS hell on layout, where the preview pixel wise matching the print data really matters for your app.
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      Thanks for the tip, Patrick! I had heard the html->pdf tools were pretty good, but you're absolutely right about the pixel precision needs. I got my Prawn setup into a reasonable state pretty early, and it's be Mostly Fine, Just Fine.
kenbellows 12y ago
I really love this concept and it looks really well executed. One thing I think would be really slick would be to live update the template as you pair columns with locations on the card, using the first row from the CSV for content in the preview
- lorennorman 12y ago
  Thank you! That feature is definitely on the short list, we have lots to do in terms of surfacing the data in the designs in a more "live" fashion.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    I'd like to see special symbols rendered in the text flow - e.g. power points icon with a number superimposed. Like "The flug hit you for <hiticon>5</hiticon> pts damage"
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      Guaranteed to happen.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Hard in gimp - text layout is not directly available as a method separate from fonts. And fonts cant do color in Gimp. So have to parse text, look for tags, insert icons, do your own word wrap etc. All in Lisp. Yuck.
  - icefox 12y ago
    How do you plan on doing the manufacturing?
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      Manufacturing is out of scope for this product, at current. It is firmly a prototyping tool, not a production tool. The idea is to make it trivial for designers to iterate so they will do more of it. More iterations means better games, faster, and we all win.
JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I use GIMP scripts for this. Instead of spreadsheet, just a call with arguments separated by commas like this: (UrNammu-new-craftsman 1 "2Baubles.png" "Fleece the Tourist" "Got his pants! Gain 2 Baubles" "Google Images") We print using thegamecrafter.com, which is a little struggle because our decks have 100+ cards, and they require EACH CARD to be 'proofed' by hand on their laggy webpage. Proofing 1 card is enough for our software-generated cards, they all align exactly the same vs the template.
- lorennorman 12y ago
  This is impressive, I keep meaning to learn to script Gimp and Inkscape, sometimes I think web apps are the only way I can think anymore... Great point about thegamecrafter, we had the same problem. We want to try their API though, as Paperize could dump entire prototypes in there at once. Makes it a lot easier on your playtesters, too!
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    You've gone a long way, putting it on a web page. Doing it 'by hand' doesn't help anybody but us. I've been thinking about doing what you're doing; I'm just glad you're doing it! Hey, if you could automate 'proofing' cards while you're dumping to thegamecrafter, that would be wonderful.
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      What I keep imagining is managing hex and square tiles this way...
- troels 12y ago
  I tend to use HTML to create my prototypes in. I find that it's a pretty good medium for the purpose and there are plenty of developer tools around that makes it easy to work with. Plus it's easy to script.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Red_Tarsius 12y ago
Very interesting! However, I think the landing page should be clearer. No customer watches a 9:00 minutes video of a product, no matter how good it is. I'd switch to a 30 seconds promo (who are we? Why do you need us?) and keep the longer one for users who already know the product – they are hooked – and look for the nitty-gritty details.
- codewithcheese 12y ago
  I don't totally disagree but I watched about 6 mins, until I got the general idea, and I have never considered making a card game before.
  - diggum 12y ago
    Me, too. Now I'm pondering card game ideas!
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      Yes! That's what's fun, now you can easily imagine a re-skin of all kinds of simple games, just go find some fun graphics on the web and click "print". I want to get an interface going on mobile so you can just snap pictures with your phone to add card art on the fly.
- lorennorman 12y ago
  I agree! Totally didn't expect this to get big today, but very glad it did! Once we're done gathering requirements from the hardcore game designers we're targeting, we'll revert that page to something a little sexier.
rjurney 12y ago
Way to go Loren, the people have spoken and they like it!
- lorennorman 12y ago
  Does nothing for my imposter syndrome, unfortunately!
matthuggins 12y ago
Not relevant to the tool, but he kept saying in the video that the game has 16 cards even though he proceeded to create 17 cards (5 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2).
bduerst 12y ago
I would love to try it - when does Beta open? Edit: Nevermind. I was able to use it :) FYI, you get a csrf error when logging in with a google account.
- lorennorman 12y ago
  We hope to start inviting early adopters in in March to do final tweaking and load testing. We'll probably go to beta invites as soon as we think it's stable and useful. From there, it goes where the users take us! Right now the only way to be considered for early access is to fill out our feedback form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pGhxa1NvBmqVvV4tPt0YTiUcDRxMfaj8QHHoS1mIOsA/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pGhxa1NvBmqVvV4tPt0YTiUcDRx...
  - bduerst 12y ago
    Yep, I submitted my email address. It's great stuff. Would be amazing if you had a Cards Against Humanity template too. We have an info set we're looking to print for our own personal use, but I can't seem to find a good template gen and don't have the time to learn gimp commands.
    - lorennorman 12y ago
      We were wondering if we were going to get any CAH requests. That's an easy thing for us to do, we just weren't sure about letting the product turn into that instead of a serious design tool. Then again what does "serious" even mean.
      - bduerst 12y ago
        I think CAH is probably some low-hanging fruit to at least get people to your site (though I'm probably bias because I am looking for it), but your the real differentiator is that you support full templates. Just keep advertising it as is. Custom templates would be rad too.
- lorennorman 12y ago
jgoewert 12y ago
I already submitted the survey, then on my drive home thought "Did it have a tuckbox creator/generator? I don't think I saw that in the video."
- lorennorman 12y ago
  It does not... yet! I'll add it to the feature requests we're weighing. Anything else you wish we had templates for?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
jldugger 12y ago
So at this point, you're basically ready to pirate M:tG and Netrunner ;)
- lorennorman 12y ago
  Yeah, that's pretty easy now, I suppose. Totally not the goal, nor a behavior we'd encourage!

131 points by Rabidgremlin 12y ago

strict9 12y ago

Very disappointing to hit a landing pages with video that only collects email addresses.

lorennorman 12y ago
Sorry to disappoint! We didn't post this to HN, but I can see how the title here is misleading.
- Rabidgremlin 12y ago
  Oops... I posted it because I thought it was a great idea/presso/product and the HN community would be a good place to get feedback from. Apologies if it was premature!
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    Not at all and thank you so much!
    - Rabidgremlin 12y ago
      No problem. You could always bump me up the early access list in return :)
- strict9 12y ago
  Disappointed only because it looks interesting. Also, I think many people have been burned by email address harvesting pages that have great ideas but never materialized.

woebtz 12y ago

Beautiful tool! Something seems unfinished with the column-to-position associations. Maybe they need some more style to communicate the purpose a bit clearer? (e.g. representing the columns-to-positions in a table style, or more vertical padding separation, or referencing positions by letter (A, B, C, etc.) instead of by #).

lorennorman 12y ago
We would agree. The UI itself is still evolving rapidly, the core functionality just finally came together and got useful. Ideally, we get feedback during this process that helps us nail down the most important workflows and give it a serious UX paint job.
- kenbellows 12y ago
  That particular feature seems sort of backwards to me; might just be me, but I think it might be more straightforward to list the places you can put things on the template and have a <select> allowing you to pick columns from your CSV for each spot (default to nothing in a spot)
- AndrewDucker 12y ago
  It would be great to automatically match columns where the names are the same (like "Image").

rikkus 12y ago

Nice clean app design. What are you using to render PDFs?

lorennorman 12y ago
Right now it is Prawn[0]. It slowly evolved from a script a year ago, where it was fine. We are considering switching to an HTML->PDF workflow, though, since I have to render all of this stuff in the web for quicker previews anyway! Thanks for the clean design mention, we owe it mostly to Zurb Foundation[1]. Using those modal popovers to control the user's attention has really helped me narrow the UI variables. 0: http://prawnpdf.org http://prawnpdf.org 1: http://foundation.zurb.com http://foundation.zurb.com
- patio11 12y ago
  Stick with Prawn, as it is sanity saving for this task. For web based previews, use GraphicsMagick and Postscript to turn the PDF into a gif or image. One command line, takes half a second. Saves you from doing CSS hell on layout, where the preview pixel wise matching the print data really matters for your app.
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    Thanks for the tip, Patrick! I had heard the html->pdf tools were pretty good, but you're absolutely right about the pixel precision needs. I got my Prawn setup into a reasonable state pretty early, and it's be Mostly Fine, Just Fine.

kenbellows 12y ago

I really love this concept and it looks really well executed. One thing I think would be really slick would be to live update the template as you pair columns with locations on the card, using the first row from the CSV for content in the preview

lorennorman 12y ago
Thank you! That feature is definitely on the short list, we have lots to do in terms of surfacing the data in the designs in a more "live" fashion.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I'd like to see special symbols rendered in the text flow - e.g. power points icon with a number superimposed. Like "The flug hit you for <hiticon>5</hiticon> pts damage"
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    Guaranteed to happen.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Hard in gimp - text layout is not directly available as a method separate from fonts. And fonts cant do color in Gimp. So have to parse text, look for tags, insert icons, do your own word wrap etc. All in Lisp. Yuck.
- icefox 12y ago
  How do you plan on doing the manufacturing?
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    Manufacturing is out of scope for this product, at current. It is firmly a prototyping tool, not a production tool. The idea is to make it trivial for designers to iterate so they will do more of it. More iterations means better games, faster, and we all win.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

I use GIMP scripts for this. Instead of spreadsheet, just a call with arguments separated by commas like this: (UrNammu-new-craftsman 1 "2Baubles.png" "Fleece the Tourist" "Got his pants! Gain 2 Baubles" "Google Images") We print using thegamecrafter.com, which is a little struggle because our decks have 100+ cards, and they require EACH CARD to be 'proofed' by hand on their laggy webpage. Proofing 1 card is enough for our software-generated cards, they all align exactly the same vs the template.

lorennorman 12y ago
This is impressive, I keep meaning to learn to script Gimp and Inkscape, sometimes I think web apps are the only way I can think anymore... Great point about thegamecrafter, we had the same problem. We want to try their API though, as Paperize could dump entire prototypes in there at once. Makes it a lot easier on your playtesters, too!
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  You've gone a long way, putting it on a web page. Doing it 'by hand' doesn't help anybody but us. I've been thinking about doing what you're doing; I'm just glad you're doing it! Hey, if you could automate 'proofing' cards while you're dumping to thegamecrafter, that would be wonderful.
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    What I keep imagining is managing hex and square tiles this way...
troels 12y ago
I tend to use HTML to create my prototypes in. I find that it's a pretty good medium for the purpose and there are plenty of developer tools around that makes it easy to work with. Plus it's easy to script.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago

Red_Tarsius 12y ago

Very interesting! However, I think the landing page should be clearer. No customer watches a 9:00 minutes video of a product, no matter how good it is. I'd switch to a 30 seconds promo (who are we? Why do you need us?) and keep the longer one for users who already know the product – they are hooked – and look for the nitty-gritty details.

codewithcheese 12y ago
I don't totally disagree but I watched about 6 mins, until I got the general idea, and I have never considered making a card game before.
- diggum 12y ago
  Me, too. Now I'm pondering card game ideas!
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    Yes! That's what's fun, now you can easily imagine a re-skin of all kinds of simple games, just go find some fun graphics on the web and click "print". I want to get an interface going on mobile so you can just snap pictures with your phone to add card art on the fly.
lorennorman 12y ago
I agree! Totally didn't expect this to get big today, but very glad it did! Once we're done gathering requirements from the hardcore game designers we're targeting, we'll revert that page to something a little sexier.

rjurney 12y ago

Way to go Loren, the people have spoken and they like it!

lorennorman 12y ago
Does nothing for my imposter syndrome, unfortunately!

matthuggins 12y ago

Not relevant to the tool, but he kept saying in the video that the game has 16 cards even though he proceeded to create 17 cards (5 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2).

bduerst 12y ago

I would love to try it - when does Beta open? Edit: Nevermind. I was able to use it :) FYI, you get a csrf error when logging in with a google account.

lorennorman 12y ago
We hope to start inviting early adopters in in March to do final tweaking and load testing. We'll probably go to beta invites as soon as we think it's stable and useful. From there, it goes where the users take us! Right now the only way to be considered for early access is to fill out our feedback form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pGhxa1NvBmqVvV4tPt0YTiUcDRxMfaj8QHHoS1mIOsA/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pGhxa1NvBmqVvV4tPt0YTiUcDRx...
- bduerst 12y ago
  Yep, I submitted my email address. It's great stuff. Would be amazing if you had a Cards Against Humanity template too. We have an info set we're looking to print for our own personal use, but I can't seem to find a good template gen and don't have the time to learn gimp commands.
  - lorennorman 12y ago
    We were wondering if we were going to get any CAH requests. That's an easy thing for us to do, we just weren't sure about letting the product turn into that instead of a serious design tool. Then again what does "serious" even mean.
    - bduerst 12y ago
      I think CAH is probably some low-hanging fruit to at least get people to your site (though I'm probably bias because I am looking for it), but your the real differentiator is that you support full templates. Just keep advertising it as is. Custom templates would be rad too.
lorennorman 12y ago

jgoewert 12y ago

I already submitted the survey, then on my drive home thought "Did it have a tuckbox creator/generator? I don't think I saw that in the video."

lorennorman 12y ago
It does not... yet! I'll add it to the feature requests we're weighing. Anything else you wish we had templates for?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

jldugger 12y ago

So at this point, you're basically ready to pirate M:tG and Netrunner ;)

lorennorman 12y ago
Yeah, that's pretty easy now, I suppose. Totally not the goal, nor a behavior we'd encourage!