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I disagree. Without Stalin's political system we were not able to build our nuclear and fusion shield (not only the bomb itself, but rockets, plains and other

I disagree. Without Stalin's political system we were not able to build our nuclear and fusion shield (not only the bomb itself, but rockets, plains and other delivery systems), antimissile systems and so on. The goal of that defence project demanded hyper concentration of human resources, and Stalin did this. And if he didn't who can grant for shure that USA would not use their nukes against our country (or, may be some other country, which was in conflict with USA) as they did against Japan? The most people thanked Stalin for that safety he gave our nation, the minority had suffered. Yes, there was oversacrifices and exaggerations, and that was cruel regime and highly militarized. But it was necessary to protect ourselves from the unfriendly West (the West openly hated communism since the beggining, even when it was only internal Russian affair). And in the end, it was Churchill, who declared Сold War, not Stalin. And Putin has nothing in common with Stalin. You know, our elders say about our current political situation: if we would have Stalin nowadays the life would be far far better. Putin is not so strong, and smart, and firm and slefless, as Stalin was. For instance Putin have ended Russian Academy of Sciences So... You may not be afraid, we are not able to rebuild Union here in any sense.

mercurial 12y ago
> Yes, there was oversacrifices and exaggerations, and that was cruel regime and highly militarized. But it was necessary to protect ourselves from the unfriendly West (the West openly hated communism since the beggining, even when it was only internal Russian affair). And in the end, it was Churchill, who declared Сold War, not Stalin. Come on. The large-scale purges, the public trials, the goulags... this was done to suppress not only internal dissent, but any independent thought. How many loyal communists, original bolsheviks, were executed or sent to die in the camps? This had nothing to do with "protecting the USSR from the West" (I'll note that Stalin seemed very willing to work with the West, in the person of Adolf Hitler, as long as he got something out of it). Stalin was a mass murderer. You cannot brush his crimes under the carpet by talking about "exagerations", "sacrifices" and "necessity".
- othaiNgo 12y ago
  And am I brushing something away? I'm just saying, that he was not catastrophic to our country. For instance during Yeltsin's democratic government there was no repressions but because of povetry died over 3000000 people, and we lost a lot of industrial enterprises. During Stalin's repressions died 650000 people, but he developed our country... So... Who was a greater catastrophe for Russia? You know, just claiming that Stalin was complete disaster for us is oversimplification.
saiya-jin 12y ago
I disagree. Putin is building 21-century version of SSSR. He is in same delusional uber-ego dictator category as Stalin, just methods have matured, PR is better (well... he is still a shame to his country though), and he doesn't have the absolute power to unleash stalinist terror - it wouldn't work in same way as back then. To us in Europe, Putin (and hence Russia) is by far biggest thread to our society and our values. Forget cartoonish muslim terrorists, they are there just to catch headlines to get more sponsors/recruits from Saudi wahhabists. Putin, on the other hand, longs for his good old days in KGB and the power structure of the world back then. My country (Czechoslovakia back then) was heading towards democracy in 60', and it was invaded in '68 with russian forces just to stop it. For next 21 years, my tiny little country had 5% more population in form of soviet soldiers permanently stationed there. This recent bitter lesson won't be forgotten so easily - russians cannot be trusted. Period. I am more glad with US powerhouse being counterbalanced with Chinese. You can call my opinions personal, but Poles, Hungarians etc. could tell their own stories. I would even extrapolate and state that well-being of europe is, among other factors, linked to militarily weak russia. Once precious natural resources will go off (and eventually they will), there isn't much Russia has to offer to the world. If any non-russian disagrees, please go there living for few months, and let's talk after that.
- othaiNgo 12y ago
  I disagree. You know, borders are open. And anybody who wants european benefits can just go there and have a good european life. And many people choose that way. Those who stay just don't give (excuse me my lexic) a shit about Europe. We just do not care, and we are not interested in conquering something. We have a lot of our land to develop, so why we should bother about exhausted Europe? Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary and a lot of smaller countries was just necessary for safe belt between USSR and the West. If there was no Cold War, there was no need to control that countries. But the West preferred to confront not to cooperate. And what we supposed to do? Should we allow to position NATO's nukes around our borders? And now Putin have no interest to get something from Europe. May be only money and technology to build enterprises here. Nobody needs or wants conrol over Europe. Even more, a lot of people thinks here that we should learn from Europe... But now. Europe just pushed us away into "friendly" Chinese hug. And it would have far far different economical consequences for Europe. Because China wants your markets badly. And with Transsiberian Highway it will get them.
stared 12y ago
Do you have similar excuses for Nazi Germany for its contribution to rocketry and nuclear power? I do get why (especially in the West) people think better of Stalin than of Hitler, but its good to point out that the first had even more civilian victims. I am not saying that one should make a ranking of genociders, but one should refrain from whitening anyone who have willingly caused millions of civilian deaths.
- othaiNgo 12y ago
  The real numbers are: during 1921-1954 years there were 642980 death sentences on political cases. It is far far less, than amount of Hitler's victims. Just only Holocaust victims outnumber that. And I'm not whitening anybody and I have no excuses for Stalin. But we are just not thinking here about Stalin as the one of the worst things happened to our country. I think that being nuked by USA was quite a worse perspective for our people.

mercurial 12y ago

> Yes, there was oversacrifices and exaggerations, and that was cruel regime and highly militarized. But it was necessary to protect ourselves from the unfriendly West (the West openly hated communism since the beggining, even when it was only internal Russian affair). And in the end, it was Churchill, who declared Сold War, not Stalin. Come on. The large-scale purges, the public trials, the goulags... this was done to suppress not only internal dissent, but any independent thought. How many loyal communists, original bolsheviks, were executed or sent to die in the camps? This had nothing to do with "protecting the USSR from the West" (I'll note that Stalin seemed very willing to work with the West, in the person of Adolf Hitler, as long as he got something out of it). Stalin was a mass murderer. You cannot brush his crimes under the carpet by talking about "exagerations", "sacrifices" and "necessity".

othaiNgo 12y ago
And am I brushing something away? I'm just saying, that he was not catastrophic to our country. For instance during Yeltsin's democratic government there was no repressions but because of povetry died over 3000000 people, and we lost a lot of industrial enterprises. During Stalin's repressions died 650000 people, but he developed our country... So... Who was a greater catastrophe for Russia? You know, just claiming that Stalin was complete disaster for us is oversimplification.

saiya-jin 12y ago

I disagree. Putin is building 21-century version of SSSR. He is in same delusional uber-ego dictator category as Stalin, just methods have matured, PR is better (well... he is still a shame to his country though), and he doesn't have the absolute power to unleash stalinist terror - it wouldn't work in same way as back then. To us in Europe, Putin (and hence Russia) is by far biggest thread to our society and our values. Forget cartoonish muslim terrorists, they are there just to catch headlines to get more sponsors/recruits from Saudi wahhabists. Putin, on the other hand, longs for his good old days in KGB and the power structure of the world back then. My country (Czechoslovakia back then) was heading towards democracy in 60', and it was invaded in '68 with russian forces just to stop it. For next 21 years, my tiny little country had 5% more population in form of soviet soldiers permanently stationed there. This recent bitter lesson won't be forgotten so easily - russians cannot be trusted. Period. I am more glad with US powerhouse being counterbalanced with Chinese. You can call my opinions personal, but Poles, Hungarians etc. could tell their own stories. I would even extrapolate and state that well-being of europe is, among other factors, linked to militarily weak russia. Once precious natural resources will go off (and eventually they will), there isn't much Russia has to offer to the world. If any non-russian disagrees, please go there living for few months, and let's talk after that.

othaiNgo 12y ago
I disagree. You know, borders are open. And anybody who wants european benefits can just go there and have a good european life. And many people choose that way. Those who stay just don't give (excuse me my lexic) a shit about Europe. We just do not care, and we are not interested in conquering something. We have a lot of our land to develop, so why we should bother about exhausted Europe? Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary and a lot of smaller countries was just necessary for safe belt between USSR and the West. If there was no Cold War, there was no need to control that countries. But the West preferred to confront not to cooperate. And what we supposed to do? Should we allow to position NATO's nukes around our borders? And now Putin have no interest to get something from Europe. May be only money and technology to build enterprises here. Nobody needs or wants conrol over Europe. Even more, a lot of people thinks here that we should learn from Europe... But now. Europe just pushed us away into "friendly" Chinese hug. And it would have far far different economical consequences for Europe. Because China wants your markets badly. And with Transsiberian Highway it will get them.

stared 12y ago

Do you have similar excuses for Nazi Germany for its contribution to rocketry and nuclear power? I do get why (especially in the West) people think better of Stalin than of Hitler, but its good to point out that the first had even more civilian victims. I am not saying that one should make a ranking of genociders, but one should refrain from whitening anyone who have willingly caused millions of civilian deaths.

othaiNgo 12y ago
The real numbers are: during 1921-1954 years there were 642980 death sentences on political cases. It is far far less, than amount of Hitler's victims. Just only Holocaust victims outnumber that. And I'm not whitening anybody and I have no excuses for Stalin. But we are just not thinking here about Stalin as the one of the worst things happened to our country. I think that being nuked by USA was quite a worse perspective for our people.