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The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the li

by l33tbro 12y ago

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really give a shit about doing something truly meaningful and soul-fulfilling in their work. I may, you probably do too. But most people are fine with showing up, doing what they have to do, then getting out and spending time with the people that they love. What is so wrong with that? Sure, we get it, the visual signifiers of the exotic have changed over the last 10 years. Once upon a time in the UK it was Superclubs and being part of something fancy and opulent. Now, the iconography of the working-class has been appropriated - and people want to buy into that, probably based on the tail-end of the skeuomorphic thing - where we were desiring to feel connected to nostalgia based aesthetics. But what the author doesn't get is that people are deeply social. Sure, the economic and cultural environment will shift things the modes of interactions - but people will continue forming relationships with friends, relaying experiences, dancing to dumb songs with their friends. The artcile had some great observations, but maybe rethink framing this as "a problem" and stick to the description of culture (which was actually interesting).

gcb0 12y ago
that's what an op ed should be about... it's not an academic white paper.
SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
> Sure, we get it, the visual signifiers of the exotic have changed over the last 10 years. Yep, and are still changing and always will. Has the author even kept up? I mean, Red Stripe? Get lost, it's craft IPA or nothing!
brainpan 12y ago
> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expanding. Money is god (it's about equal in power to law, at least), and money is created in a Ponzi between central banks and governments, and between private financial corporations and private enterprises/individuals, all on the promise that there will be even more money next year to pay back the debts of this year, and give "good enough or better" returns on large capital pools invested. We consume natural resources in an unsustainable way in exchange for this money, and for a cellular role in the organs and the organism, and it will last in this way until the last day comes, when we starve to death on our own planetary stripmine. We could be taking a new course right now, to live in idealistic ways, in sustainable ways, in heroic ways. But we all just quit that notion before we start, because it's just too hard, and we distract ourselves with the greatest media spectacle of entertaining diversions and political issues every conceived. Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future. I figure that a not-yet born post-human super-predator will take the best of human intelligence and anti-entropic principles and incorporate them, and destroy the rest. Or some already-existing higher powers will swoop in at some point in the future to harvest the best of our anti-entropic principles, and destroy the rest of us. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative
- ripb 12y ago
  You've hit the nail on the head, brainpan. >But we all just quit that notion before we start Don't forget we also denounce and ridicule anyone who tries to live outside the system we have constructed and rely on.
- ashark 12y ago
  Oh my, have you been following the same bread-crumb trail of reading from HN that I have? http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ Starts off iffy, gets really good. Incidentally, that page led me to this by the same author: http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html Which is very much like something I'd been meaning to write for some time, though better-done (and certainly longer) than mine probably would have been. Strictly separating the practical and moral sides of the arguments was, in particular, a great idea. I do wish someone would send him more rebuttals, since I like reading take-downs of things I agree with and the only one linked there is really poor, even by the not-especially-rigorous standards of the original.
  - joeperks 12y ago
    I find "Meditations on Moloch" intensely interesting. Thank you so much for posting this.
- Retric 12y ago
  Assuming that was not intended as a parity. Capitalism does not require net growth. People, things, culture and organisations decay. People get old, Teens in 2016 are not going to dress the same, listen to the same songs, or even read the same books from the 2015. The is a long cycle of banks flat out failing in good times and in bad. Clothing, Houses, Bridges, and Roads need to be replaced etc. Sure, in steady state economy's there is a different balance and fewer people get to retire early. However, lower returns and later retirements does not break capitalism. Just look at Japan's falling GDP.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
JimboOmega 12y ago
I have to agree with you on the success of it as a description of culture. People will also keep chasing what's cool and play the social signaling game, especially young, single people. When I view the article as an examination of how this evolved in an anti-consumerist era, it's actually pretty interesting. When I view it as a critique of "work" as "showing up, doing what they have to do, then getting out and spending time with the people that they love." - or something that is not culturally, spiritually, etc, uplifting on its own, it's OKAY. Saying that pursuing faux-lower class experiences is motivated by that is kind of a touchy proposition, but it's worth examining, I suppose. But then it ends with the derail into "the poor poor people" It almost feels like the author has to dive into the political argument at the very end, because this site has as its subtitle "reflections on a revolution". It's an ill supported point. How does spending $10 on a cocktail in a mason jar hurt people, exactly? Maybe it's pointless, or part of an elaborate social signaling game, but it's not exploitative. Much less so than classic consumerism, I'd argue.
goodnights 12y ago
"What is so wrong with that?" Ask the people that are desperately trying to convince us otherwise. I see this a lot in "tech". That new library, language or company by "hackers" that are going to change everything. Start asking about security, practicality or why they sold and you're ignored at best. Not everyone expects you to do that, so if you're actually honest your projects gets no attention.
pjc50 12y ago
blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit This is a traditional part of the British class system from at least the 60s onwards. There's an entire pundit industry in stating this in lifestyle supplements, pop science, and inoffensive indie music. It's something that we recite, not something actionable. It's like going to church to top up your existential guilt.

by l33tbro 12y ago

gcb0 12y ago

that's what an op ed should be about... it's not an academic white paper.

SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago

> Sure, we get it, the visual signifiers of the exotic have changed over the last 10 years. Yep, and are still changing and always will. Has the author even kept up? I mean, Red Stripe? Get lost, it's craft IPA or nothing!

brainpan 12y ago

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expanding. Money is god (it's about equal in power to law, at least), and money is created in a Ponzi between central banks and governments, and between private financial corporations and private enterprises/individuals, all on the promise that there will be even more money next year to pay back the debts of this year, and give "good enough or better" returns on large capital pools invested. We consume natural resources in an unsustainable way in exchange for this money, and for a cellular role in the organs and the organism, and it will last in this way until the last day comes, when we starve to death on our own planetary stripmine. We could be taking a new course right now, to live in idealistic ways, in sustainable ways, in heroic ways. But we all just quit that notion before we start, because it's just too hard, and we distract ourselves with the greatest media spectacle of entertaining diversions and political issues every conceived. Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future. I figure that a not-yet born post-human super-predator will take the best of human intelligence and anti-entropic principles and incorporate them, and destroy the rest. Or some already-existing higher powers will swoop in at some point in the future to harvest the best of our anti-entropic principles, and destroy the rest of us. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative

ripb 12y ago
You've hit the nail on the head, brainpan. >But we all just quit that notion before we start Don't forget we also denounce and ridicule anyone who tries to live outside the system we have constructed and rely on.
ashark 12y ago
Oh my, have you been following the same bread-crumb trail of reading from HN that I have? http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ Starts off iffy, gets really good. Incidentally, that page led me to this by the same author: http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html Which is very much like something I'd been meaning to write for some time, though better-done (and certainly longer) than mine probably would have been. Strictly separating the practical and moral sides of the arguments was, in particular, a great idea. I do wish someone would send him more rebuttals, since I like reading take-downs of things I agree with and the only one linked there is really poor, even by the not-especially-rigorous standards of the original.
- joeperks 12y ago
  I find "Meditations on Moloch" intensely interesting. Thank you so much for posting this.
Retric 12y ago
Assuming that was not intended as a parity. Capitalism does not require net growth. People, things, culture and organisations decay. People get old, Teens in 2016 are not going to dress the same, listen to the same songs, or even read the same books from the 2015. The is a long cycle of banks flat out failing in good times and in bad. Clothing, Houses, Bridges, and Roads need to be replaced etc. Sure, in steady state economy's there is a different balance and fewer people get to retire early. However, lower returns and later retirements does not break capitalism. Just look at Japan's falling GDP.
- ForHackernews 12y ago

JimboOmega 12y ago

I have to agree with you on the success of it as a description of culture. People will also keep chasing what's cool and play the social signaling game, especially young, single people. When I view the article as an examination of how this evolved in an anti-consumerist era, it's actually pretty interesting. When I view it as a critique of "work" as "showing up, doing what they have to do, then getting out and spending time with the people that they love." - or something that is not culturally, spiritually, etc, uplifting on its own, it's OKAY. Saying that pursuing faux-lower class experiences is motivated by that is kind of a touchy proposition, but it's worth examining, I suppose. But then it ends with the derail into "the poor poor people" It almost feels like the author has to dive into the political argument at the very end, because this site has as its subtitle "reflections on a revolution". It's an ill supported point. How does spending $10 on a cocktail in a mason jar hurt people, exactly? Maybe it's pointless, or part of an elaborate social signaling game, but it's not exploitative. Much less so than classic consumerism, I'd argue.

goodnights 12y ago

"What is so wrong with that?" Ask the people that are desperately trying to convince us otherwise. I see this a lot in "tech". That new library, language or company by "hackers" that are going to change everything. Start asking about security, practicality or why they sold and you're ignored at best. Not everyone expects you to do that, so if you're actually honest your projects gets no attention.

pjc50 12y ago

blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit This is a traditional part of the British class system from at least the 60s onwards. There's an entire pundit industry in stating this in lifestyle supplements, pop science, and inoffensive indie music. It's something that we recite, not something actionable. It's like going to church to top up your existential guilt.