4 ms·

It doesn't matter unless they make it open-source or at the very least cross-platform. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from http://modern.ie http://modern.ie to tr

by pdknsk 12y ago

It doesn't matter unless they make it open-source or at the very least cross-platform. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from http://modern.ie http://modern.ie to try it.

thebouv 12y ago
Honestly, with as much OSS as they've been putting out there recently, I wouldn't be surprised to see this browser go that route too. Maybe.
- mishoo 12y ago
  They can't. They said in a court of law that IE can't be separated from Windows.
  - pacofvf 12y ago
    But this is another Browser: > This new rendering engine was designed with Project Spartan in mind, but will also be available in Internet Explorer on Windows 10 for enterprises and other customers who require legacy extensibility support.
    - mishoo 12y ago
      This is a good point. While I have my doubts that it will be an entirely new browser, by simply renaming it they might be able to offer a version for non-Windows OS-es without making earlier statements seem ridiculous. And they should.
  - Denvercoder9 12y ago
    Spartan isn't IE.
    - Touche 12y ago
      I know this is this is the narrative they are trying to promote but I remove code from my projects all the time but don't feel it makes it a different project.
      - jonathansampson 12y ago
        Spartan isn't a subset of IE either. We've added support for nearly 50 standards, and more. The delta between IE and Spartan is massive, and growing quickly.
        Touche 12y ago
        Interesting, if it's a complete fork does that mean IE is not going to be maintained? I thought IE was going to continue on for the time being. If there isn't a common codebase does that mean you're going to be duplicating work? Why?
        jonathansampson 12y ago
        Internet Explorer will stick around for legacy applications, but Project Spartan uses EdgeHTML (a fork of MSHTML) and is meant to be used with the web moving forward.
  - bsimpson 12y ago
    Citation? IE shipped on Mac until Safari was released.
    - mishoo 12y ago
      “Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer was the result of innovation and competition, that the two were now the same product and were inextricably linked together and that consumers were now getting all the benefits of IE for free. Those who opposed Microsoft's position countered that the browser was still a distinct and separate product which did not need to be tied to the operating system, since a separate version of Internet Explorer was available for Mac OS.” — from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
      - gtirloni 12y ago
        This isn't legacy IE but a new engine. It's like saying Chrome can't run on Linux because MS said IE can't be separated from Windows. Nonsense, but I get your point ("MS lied back then").
    - aaronbrethorst 12y ago
      Mac IE used a different rendering engine than Windows IE. Windows' is (was) called Trident. Mac IE's was called Tasman[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_(layout_engine) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_(layout_engine)
  - monocasa 12y ago
    That had more to do with the fact that Windows depends on the Trident than the other way around. Stuff like the help files used mshtml.dll.
  - mynameisvlad 12y ago
    The actual court case you're referring to has to do with the bundling of IE with Windows and how it can't be pulled out. Remember that IE actually used to be cross-platform until version 5 with IE for Mac although it used a different rendering engine (Tasman vs Trident).
freehunter 12y ago
I think the point is that you shouldn't need to try it. If you write standard code, it should work.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  That would be a first. It is always write once, debug everywhere and always will be.
pjmlp 12y ago
And I am not buying a Mac to try out Safari.
- pdknsk 12y ago
  To try WebKit you don't need to. It builds a very basic browser, either GTK+ or Qt based.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Webkit != Safari, specially when tracking down rendering issues.
    - nirvdrum 12y ago
      They also use different JavaScript engines and that can bite you hard.
jonathansampson 12y ago
We created http://remote.modern.ie http://remote.modern.ie so you can stream Internet Explorer to your Mac. Even to your iOS device :)
- joshstrange 12y ago
  Please, let's not pretend remote.modern.ie OR the VM's are ANYTHING close to running the browser locally. They are, at best, a band-aid. Yes, pjmlp, safari is OS X-only now but just because I'm a Mac user does not mean I support that decision, I don't. Also you know how many times in the past 10 years I've heard someone say "Well it works in Chrome/FF/IE but not in Safari?" Never. That's not to say it never happens but I've spent many agonising hours trying to make IE behave when it works PERFECTLY in Chrome/FF/Safari. I've had a handful of "It works in FF but not Chrome" and "It works in Chrome but not FF" but I've got a landfill full of "It doesn't work in IE". Things I need before I'm going to pretend IE isn't a steaming pile of shit, hell I'd settle for just 1-2: * Evergreen browser (I'm sick of dealing with 7/8/9, I don't look forward to playing the same song and dance with 10/11/12/etc) * Cross-platform (Testing on Linux or a Mac is painful) * Open source (IE is the ONLY major browser that is not OS, and yes I know Chromium != Chrome but I'd be fine with IE doing the same sort of thing)
  - sandstrom 12y ago
    Actually IE11 isn't too bad. Still a bit worse than the others, but Safari has also lagged lately (and Safari also isn't evergreen). (I agree with all of the above for the older IE < 10)
- jaredmcateer 12y ago
  What about to my Mint pc?
  - tmzt 12y ago
    From the instructions it appears it works with a current RDP client (likely the version required for connecting to Windows 8 or 2012R2) Interesting, as their partner for Modern.IE, BrowserStack, uses a Javascript based remote desktop. (It may also support Flash on certain browsers, but I'm not sure about that part.)

by pdknsk 12y ago

It doesn't matter unless they make it open-source or at the very least cross-platform. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from http://modern.ie http://modern.ie to try it.

thebouv 12y ago

Honestly, with as much OSS as they've been putting out there recently, I wouldn't be surprised to see this browser go that route too. Maybe.

mishoo 12y ago
They can't. They said in a court of law that IE can't be separated from Windows.
- pacofvf 12y ago
  But this is another Browser: > This new rendering engine was designed with Project Spartan in mind, but will also be available in Internet Explorer on Windows 10 for enterprises and other customers who require legacy extensibility support.
  - mishoo 12y ago
    This is a good point. While I have my doubts that it will be an entirely new browser, by simply renaming it they might be able to offer a version for non-Windows OS-es without making earlier statements seem ridiculous. And they should.
- Denvercoder9 12y ago
  Spartan isn't IE.
  - Touche 12y ago
    I know this is this is the narrative they are trying to promote but I remove code from my projects all the time but don't feel it makes it a different project.
    - jonathansampson 12y ago
      Spartan isn't a subset of IE either. We've added support for nearly 50 standards, and more. The delta between IE and Spartan is massive, and growing quickly.
      - Touche 12y ago
        Interesting, if it's a complete fork does that mean IE is not going to be maintained? I thought IE was going to continue on for the time being. If there isn't a common codebase does that mean you're going to be duplicating work? Why?
        jonathansampson 12y ago
        Internet Explorer will stick around for legacy applications, but Project Spartan uses EdgeHTML (a fork of MSHTML) and is meant to be used with the web moving forward.
- bsimpson 12y ago
  Citation? IE shipped on Mac until Safari was released.
  - mishoo 12y ago
    “Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer was the result of innovation and competition, that the two were now the same product and were inextricably linked together and that consumers were now getting all the benefits of IE for free. Those who opposed Microsoft's position countered that the browser was still a distinct and separate product which did not need to be tied to the operating system, since a separate version of Internet Explorer was available for Mac OS.” — from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
    - gtirloni 12y ago
      This isn't legacy IE but a new engine. It's like saying Chrome can't run on Linux because MS said IE can't be separated from Windows. Nonsense, but I get your point ("MS lied back then").
  - aaronbrethorst 12y ago
    Mac IE used a different rendering engine than Windows IE. Windows' is (was) called Trident. Mac IE's was called Tasman[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_(layout_engine) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_(layout_engine)
- monocasa 12y ago
  That had more to do with the fact that Windows depends on the Trident than the other way around. Stuff like the help files used mshtml.dll.
- mynameisvlad 12y ago
  The actual court case you're referring to has to do with the bundling of IE with Windows and how it can't be pulled out. Remember that IE actually used to be cross-platform until version 5 with IE for Mac although it used a different rendering engine (Tasman vs Trident).

freehunter 12y ago

I think the point is that you shouldn't need to try it. If you write standard code, it should work.

tomjen3 12y ago
That would be a first. It is always write once, debug everywhere and always will be.

pjmlp 12y ago

And I am not buying a Mac to try out Safari.

pdknsk 12y ago
To try WebKit you don't need to. It builds a very basic browser, either GTK+ or Qt based.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Webkit != Safari, specially when tracking down rendering issues.
  - nirvdrum 12y ago
    They also use different JavaScript engines and that can bite you hard.

jonathansampson 12y ago

We created http://remote.modern.ie http://remote.modern.ie so you can stream Internet Explorer to your Mac. Even to your iOS device :)

joshstrange 12y ago
Please, let's not pretend remote.modern.ie OR the VM's are ANYTHING close to running the browser locally. They are, at best, a band-aid. Yes, pjmlp, safari is OS X-only now but just because I'm a Mac user does not mean I support that decision, I don't. Also you know how many times in the past 10 years I've heard someone say "Well it works in Chrome/FF/IE but not in Safari?" Never. That's not to say it never happens but I've spent many agonising hours trying to make IE behave when it works PERFECTLY in Chrome/FF/Safari. I've had a handful of "It works in FF but not Chrome" and "It works in Chrome but not FF" but I've got a landfill full of "It doesn't work in IE". Things I need before I'm going to pretend IE isn't a steaming pile of shit, hell I'd settle for just 1-2: * Evergreen browser (I'm sick of dealing with 7/8/9, I don't look forward to playing the same song and dance with 10/11/12/etc) * Cross-platform (Testing on Linux or a Mac is painful) * Open source (IE is the ONLY major browser that is not OS, and yes I know Chromium != Chrome but I'd be fine with IE doing the same sort of thing)
- sandstrom 12y ago
  Actually IE11 isn't too bad. Still a bit worse than the others, but Safari has also lagged lately (and Safari also isn't evergreen). (I agree with all of the above for the older IE < 10)
jaredmcateer 12y ago
What about to my Mint pc?
- tmzt 12y ago
  From the instructions it appears it works with a current RDP client (likely the version required for connecting to Windows 8 or 2012R2) Interesting, as their partner for Modern.IE, BrowserStack, uses a Javascript based remote desktop. (It may also support Flash on certain browsers, but I'm not sure about that part.)