4 ms·

So much for "Freedom of Information". This looks like straight from onion news it's so ridiculous.

by Kenji 12y ago

eli 12y ago
Well, I don't think anyone expects FOIA to apply to genuinely classified information. So I guess the issue is whether it actually needs to be classified.
- jMyles 12y ago
  Some of us, though, think that "classified information" held by governments is an anachronism on its face in the information age. And so yes, I expect that FOIA will apply to every shred of knowledge held by government once this misconfiguration is corrected.
  - eli 12y ago
    Private encryption keys? Missile launch codes? Whistleblowers identities?
    - jMyles 12y ago
      The first I can imagine simply becoming the private property of individuals who desire or require access. The second I'm happy to have not exist at all. And the third I'm happy to make public and protected.
  - JonFish85 12y ago
    (Sigh). Some things absolutely need to be classified: nuclear launch codes, specific positions & plans of the military, all sorts of military secrets (spy information, knowledge that gives us an advantage against any enemies), login credentials for government officials, encryption keys for things, etc. Do you really want everyone in the world to know the exact location of our nuclear weapons? Top speed of our submarines? Blind spots of our radar systems?
    - jMyles 12y ago
      > the exact location of our nuclear weapons? Top speed of our submarines? Blind spots of our radar systems? I don't mean to sound brash or simplistic, but the simple answer is that I don't want my government to have any of those things. I'll be safer and more empowered when my government disarms, de-escalates, and makes its goings on completely transparent. As a thought exercise: how much longer do you think the world will abide nuclear weapons? Are they just here forever?
      - JonFish85 12y ago
        I'm going to leave the whole first part alone, just so this doesn't devolve TOO far. >> As a thought exercise: how much longer do you think the world will abide nuclear weapons? Are they just here forever? They're probably here as long as there's a desire to utterly wipe a large area off of the map. Maybe the USA doesn't want them anymore, but many, many other countries want them and will continue to work towards getting them. Having them gets you a seat at the power table, and people have to listen to you. Even if they're not used, they're an extraordinarily valuable tool.
        psykovsky 12y ago
        >> Having them gets you a seat at the power table What? A death sentence, you mean, only by trying to have them.
      - LLWM 12y ago
        The knowledge of how to make and deploy nuclear weapons isn't going away. In the future, technology might develop to such a point where having the weapons themselves ready is unnecessary because they can be created instantly as they are needed. Does that count?
      - swalsh 12y ago
        As long as there exists traditional countries, with traditional power structures, there will, and SHOULD exist a formal force. The world has a long history if bad people rising to power, and doing bad things.
ObviousScience 12y ago
Someone asked the government for a sensitive report. The government replied that it had such a report, but while it would admit the existence, it felt the material contained in it was necessary to keep secret. This gives the original requester a chance to address this and ask why the report is being kept secret and for a review of that, which is different than if the government had simply denied such a report existed. This actually sounds like freedom of information happening, but it's reasonable to expect that kind of thing takes time and requires some back-and-forth to discuss what's the proper amount to keep secret or not. So I'm curious what your actual objection is.

So much for "Freedom of Information". This looks like straight from onion news it's so ridiculous.

by Kenji 12y ago

So much for "Freedom of Information". This looks like straight from onion news it's so ridiculous.

eli 12y ago

Well, I don't think anyone expects FOIA to apply to genuinely classified information. So I guess the issue is whether it actually needs to be classified.

jMyles 12y ago
Some of us, though, think that "classified information" held by governments is an anachronism on its face in the information age. And so yes, I expect that FOIA will apply to every shred of knowledge held by government once this misconfiguration is corrected.
- eli 12y ago
  Private encryption keys? Missile launch codes? Whistleblowers identities?
  - jMyles 12y ago
    The first I can imagine simply becoming the private property of individuals who desire or require access. The second I'm happy to have not exist at all. And the third I'm happy to make public and protected.
- JonFish85 12y ago
  (Sigh). Some things absolutely need to be classified: nuclear launch codes, specific positions & plans of the military, all sorts of military secrets (spy information, knowledge that gives us an advantage against any enemies), login credentials for government officials, encryption keys for things, etc. Do you really want everyone in the world to know the exact location of our nuclear weapons? Top speed of our submarines? Blind spots of our radar systems?
  - jMyles 12y ago
    > the exact location of our nuclear weapons? Top speed of our submarines? Blind spots of our radar systems? I don't mean to sound brash or simplistic, but the simple answer is that I don't want my government to have any of those things. I'll be safer and more empowered when my government disarms, de-escalates, and makes its goings on completely transparent. As a thought exercise: how much longer do you think the world will abide nuclear weapons? Are they just here forever?
    - JonFish85 12y ago
      I'm going to leave the whole first part alone, just so this doesn't devolve TOO far. >> As a thought exercise: how much longer do you think the world will abide nuclear weapons? Are they just here forever? They're probably here as long as there's a desire to utterly wipe a large area off of the map. Maybe the USA doesn't want them anymore, but many, many other countries want them and will continue to work towards getting them. Having them gets you a seat at the power table, and people have to listen to you. Even if they're not used, they're an extraordinarily valuable tool.
      - psykovsky 12y ago
        >> Having them gets you a seat at the power table What? A death sentence, you mean, only by trying to have them.
    - LLWM 12y ago
      The knowledge of how to make and deploy nuclear weapons isn't going away. In the future, technology might develop to such a point where having the weapons themselves ready is unnecessary because they can be created instantly as they are needed. Does that count?
    - swalsh 12y ago
      As long as there exists traditional countries, with traditional power structures, there will, and SHOULD exist a formal force. The world has a long history if bad people rising to power, and doing bad things.

ObviousScience 12y ago

Someone asked the government for a sensitive report. The government replied that it had such a report, but while it would admit the existence, it felt the material contained in it was necessary to keep secret. This gives the original requester a chance to address this and ask why the report is being kept secret and for a review of that, which is different than if the government had simply denied such a report existed. This actually sounds like freedom of information happening, but it's reasonable to expect that kind of thing takes time and requires some back-and-forth to discuss what's the proper amount to keep secret or not. So I'm curious what your actual objection is.