10 ms·

I've dealt with this when I had to mop up after a predecessor made a habit of taking bungs at a government department. My advice to you is that you should have

by gstar 17y ago

I've dealt with this when I had to mop up after a predecessor made a habit of taking bungs at a government department. My advice to you is that you should have absolutely nothing to do with this. You should forget the sale now (it's a possibility that it was only entertained in the first place because your associate thought the payoff would be likely). If you can anonymously tip off this person's superior one way or another, you'll be doing a good thing for everyone (citizens, colleagues, bung-seeker) in the long run. This advice only applies for government - in private enterprise this kind of thing is pretty much par for the course on very big sales, but in modern times it normally takes the form of valuable free stuff rather than cash.

puppetaccount 17y ago
The dilemma is clearly between the larger good and my selfish interest in not seeing my company hurt. The industry we operate in is very narrow and while losing thus customer alone would hurt us a lot, having someone there say negative things about us could destroy us. I have already written off this customer, because if nothing else, the stress of having to manage a corrupt person while not indulging in corruption is not worth whatever money we make off them. But we would prefer to not get vilified in the industry because of someone else's character flaws. I will find out about how to anonymously report this. I am thinking I could do it at least after a few months so at the very least it's not obvious who did it.
- gstar 17y ago
  I understand, managing this for you has got to be really, really delicate. There's potential downsides in doing nothing as well. I'd still say it is worth having a word with someone more senior if you are able to. He'll likely lose his job, which is a horrible thing to have on your conscience - but if your sale goes through anyway, and he championed it - you could still end up on the hook. You'll either get tarred with his brush, or outright investigated for colluding with him, which may or may not be a crime where you are. On the basis that you've written off the sale mentally, talking becomes an upside. It gives you another chance at making the sale on fair terms, and establishes your trustworthiness. I don't envy you though, horrible situation.
  - puppetaccount 17y ago
    Now you have me worried. If I did not offer him anything, how could I be held responsible for colluding with him? I understand the risk of being painted with the same brush. This is all the more infuriating because there are other people, more senior than him at this organization who seemed enthusiastic about the project.
    - dasht 17y ago
      Don't screw around. You've described yourself as the sole witness the commission of a serious crime. Passivity and/or trying to resolve this "politely" in back channels can bite you by making you an accomplice. If it really was as bad as you describe - your next call should be to the FBI and you should prepare for that by writing down every detail you remember, as carefully and accurately as you can.
      - puppetaccount 17y ago
        I am going to write it down. I will have to think a lot and come to an agreement with my partner before I can decide to talk non-anonymously to the authorities. I do appreciate your advice on this.
        raffi 17y ago
        You can talk anonymously to the authorities. They may not be able to do much but at least they can keep an eye on the guy. There is an organization called the Office of Special Investigations. They handle this kind of stuff. Letting them know the activity exists might be enough to get them to open an investigation and watch the guy.
      - lucifer 17y ago
        Isn't he better off just walking away from this (and yes OP: forget the sale)? Per his own account here, he (a) discussed potential issues with "hiding" the kickback, and (b) tentatively agreed to discuss the possibility with his "by the book" partner. I am not questioning your righteous outrage here, but this is a can of worms if there ever was one. And I'm just guessing that the sleaze ball in DC acted that way because its likely a norm in the seat of our government. (Would that really surprise you?)
- percept 17y ago
  IANAL but it might not be a bad idea to take a few minutes and write down who said what and when, while it's still fresh in your mind. Maybe even in some official company record ("captain's log"). Ya never know . . .
  - puppetaccount 17y ago
    Yes writing it down couldn't hurt (I think).
  - sethg 17y ago
    I agree. If the situation escalates to the point where you can't avoid legal action (e.g., your contact accuses you of doing something corrupt), it would be useful to have a paper trail for your side of the story.
dasht 17y ago
Do not tip off the supervisor. Go to the FBI.
- dunmalg 17y ago
  The FBI does not care if some low level bureaucrat at (say) the New York City Department of Education offered a pay-for-play deal. Better advice is to take five minutes to Google up the department which handles internal ethics issues in whichever organization it is and contact them. Granted, you don't go to the guy's supervisor.... but you also don't leap immediately to the feds.
  - patio11 17y ago
    The FBI does care, and will care with EXTREME PREJUDICE if your bureaucrat comes anywhere near a national security brief, which is a surprisingly large field of human endeavor. (It may not be obvious to many people here that there are thousands of jobs in the Department of Agriculture which are categorized as national security related, but there are.)

by gstar 17y ago

puppetaccount 17y ago

The dilemma is clearly between the larger good and my selfish interest in not seeing my company hurt. The industry we operate in is very narrow and while losing thus customer alone would hurt us a lot, having someone there say negative things about us could destroy us. I have already written off this customer, because if nothing else, the stress of having to manage a corrupt person while not indulging in corruption is not worth whatever money we make off them. But we would prefer to not get vilified in the industry because of someone else's character flaws. I will find out about how to anonymously report this. I am thinking I could do it at least after a few months so at the very least it's not obvious who did it.

gstar 17y ago
I understand, managing this for you has got to be really, really delicate. There's potential downsides in doing nothing as well. I'd still say it is worth having a word with someone more senior if you are able to. He'll likely lose his job, which is a horrible thing to have on your conscience - but if your sale goes through anyway, and he championed it - you could still end up on the hook. You'll either get tarred with his brush, or outright investigated for colluding with him, which may or may not be a crime where you are. On the basis that you've written off the sale mentally, talking becomes an upside. It gives you another chance at making the sale on fair terms, and establishes your trustworthiness. I don't envy you though, horrible situation.
- puppetaccount 17y ago
  Now you have me worried. If I did not offer him anything, how could I be held responsible for colluding with him? I understand the risk of being painted with the same brush. This is all the more infuriating because there are other people, more senior than him at this organization who seemed enthusiastic about the project.
  - dasht 17y ago
    Don't screw around. You've described yourself as the sole witness the commission of a serious crime. Passivity and/or trying to resolve this "politely" in back channels can bite you by making you an accomplice. If it really was as bad as you describe - your next call should be to the FBI and you should prepare for that by writing down every detail you remember, as carefully and accurately as you can.
    - puppetaccount 17y ago
      I am going to write it down. I will have to think a lot and come to an agreement with my partner before I can decide to talk non-anonymously to the authorities. I do appreciate your advice on this.
      - raffi 17y ago
        You can talk anonymously to the authorities. They may not be able to do much but at least they can keep an eye on the guy. There is an organization called the Office of Special Investigations. They handle this kind of stuff. Letting them know the activity exists might be enough to get them to open an investigation and watch the guy.
    - lucifer 17y ago
      Isn't he better off just walking away from this (and yes OP: forget the sale)? Per his own account here, he (a) discussed potential issues with "hiding" the kickback, and (b) tentatively agreed to discuss the possibility with his "by the book" partner. I am not questioning your righteous outrage here, but this is a can of worms if there ever was one. And I'm just guessing that the sleaze ball in DC acted that way because its likely a norm in the seat of our government. (Would that really surprise you?)
percept 17y ago
IANAL but it might not be a bad idea to take a few minutes and write down who said what and when, while it's still fresh in your mind. Maybe even in some official company record ("captain's log"). Ya never know . . .
- puppetaccount 17y ago
  Yes writing it down couldn't hurt (I think).
- sethg 17y ago
  I agree. If the situation escalates to the point where you can't avoid legal action (e.g., your contact accuses you of doing something corrupt), it would be useful to have a paper trail for your side of the story.

dasht 17y ago

Do not tip off the supervisor. Go to the FBI.

dunmalg 17y ago
The FBI does not care if some low level bureaucrat at (say) the New York City Department of Education offered a pay-for-play deal. Better advice is to take five minutes to Google up the department which handles internal ethics issues in whichever organization it is and contact them. Granted, you don't go to the guy's supervisor.... but you also don't leap immediately to the feds.
- patio11 17y ago
  The FBI does care, and will care with EXTREME PREJUDICE if your bureaucrat comes anywhere near a national security brief, which is a surprisingly large field of human endeavor. (It may not be obvious to many people here that there are thousands of jobs in the Department of Agriculture which are categorized as national security related, but there are.)