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Please forgive me if this sounds rude, but did you read my comment before replying to it? First paragraph: "I don't believe for a second that had 2008 or 2012

Please forgive me if this sounds rude, but did you read my comment before replying to it? First paragraph: "I don't believe for a second that had 2008 or 2012 turned out differently, commercial forces would have any less influence on those who write the laws, ratify the laws, or he who signs them. It's the nature of the beast." Anyway, there was virtually no lesser-of-two-evils narrative in '08 or '12 from the American left, or at least as little as there's ever been in recent history. From either side, really.

WildUtah 12y ago
"virtually no lesser-of-two-evils narrative in '08 or '12 from the American left" Maybe not at rallies, but if you read lefty commentary or conversation sites it was nothing but lesser-of-two-evils in '08 and '12. Likewise on the right. Thoughtful people always know the score and Obama has been as hopey and changey as anyone could reasonably hope for -- specifically, he has been a little better than the one before him.
- x0x0 12y ago
  Claiming Obama is only a little better than Bush is a little silly. We have obamacare; for all it's flaws, we've both massively reduced the number of uninsured in the United States and slowed the growth of health costs. It's a huge win, and while I would have loved single payer -- hmos and all health insurers are nothing but parasites -- the fact is he didn't have the votes in the Senate and Obama did as well as possible. I'm pretty confident that in the 20 year timeframe we'll have something pretty close to single payer, whether it's true single payer or strong caps on how much resources insurers can suck. Obamacare is also a massive gift to anyone who would like to start a company, both for the original founders and for early employees. We have many fewer troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. While I wish Obama were much better, those are two big differences from Bush.
krapp 12y ago
I'm not too worried about rudeness given your obviously trollish temporary username, but yes, I did read your comment. I was only trying to suggest that there was something more pragmatic than wide-eyed naiveté at work when people voted for Obama the second time. There were plenty of Democrats who were tired of Obama and were ready to jump ship if only the Republicans had met them halfway and presented a candidate who wasn't contemptible.
- HopeyChangey 12y ago
  That doesn't sound like the parent's situation, though.

WildUtah 12y ago

"virtually no lesser-of-two-evils narrative in '08 or '12 from the American left" Maybe not at rallies, but if you read lefty commentary or conversation sites it was nothing but lesser-of-two-evils in '08 and '12. Likewise on the right. Thoughtful people always know the score and Obama has been as hopey and changey as anyone could reasonably hope for -- specifically, he has been a little better than the one before him.

x0x0 12y ago
Claiming Obama is only a little better than Bush is a little silly. We have obamacare; for all it's flaws, we've both massively reduced the number of uninsured in the United States and slowed the growth of health costs. It's a huge win, and while I would have loved single payer -- hmos and all health insurers are nothing but parasites -- the fact is he didn't have the votes in the Senate and Obama did as well as possible. I'm pretty confident that in the 20 year timeframe we'll have something pretty close to single payer, whether it's true single payer or strong caps on how much resources insurers can suck. Obamacare is also a massive gift to anyone who would like to start a company, both for the original founders and for early employees. We have many fewer troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. While I wish Obama were much better, those are two big differences from Bush.

krapp 12y ago

I'm not too worried about rudeness given your obviously trollish temporary username, but yes, I did read your comment. I was only trying to suggest that there was something more pragmatic than wide-eyed naiveté at work when people voted for Obama the second time. There were plenty of Democrats who were tired of Obama and were ready to jump ship if only the Republicans had met them halfway and presented a candidate who wasn't contemptible.

HopeyChangey 12y ago
That doesn't sound like the parent's situation, though.