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Either way the British Empire being helped or hindered by Catholicism (or the lack there of) is mostly conjecture. Its like trying to argue if the Romans had ab

Either way the British Empire being helped or hindered by Catholicism (or the lack there of) is mostly conjecture. Its like trying to argue if the Romans had abolished slavery they would have landed on the moon in 1462. Without time traveling and alternate histories to explore we will never know.

hessenwolf 12y ago
Exploring the counterfactual allows us to reveal holes in our understanding, by setting up hypotheses and allowing them to be knocked down by argument. And it's fun.
SagelyGuru 12y ago
But it is not a conjecture. The results are plain to see, that is my point. We really did land on the moon. People like Sir Isaac Newton, who by the way refused the holy orders of the Anglican Church too, were nonetheless allowed to pursue their interests without being threatened by the inquisition. That is what laid the foundations. I am surprised and saddened for you, to get -4 votes here of all places. I would have thought that at least some of you may have understood and appreciated the important connection between free thought and scientific and technical progress and the fact that Henry VIII just may have made that possible in Britain. Instead all I get is cheap jibes about "whiggish view" and Mussolini. Sad. And no, it really is not interesting to see regurgitated back the standard TV line that "it was all to do with his gonads". Kings can and do discreetly satisfy their gonads without having to go through difficult public divorces.
- mercurial 12y ago
  > But it is not a conjecture. The results are plain to see, that is my point. We really did land on the moon. People like Sir Isaac Newton, who by the way refused the holy orders of the Anglican Church too, were nonetheless allowed to pursue their interests without being threatened by the inquisition. That is what laid the foundations. The foundation of what? Is your argument that the success of the British Empire was due to a post-Henri VIII technological superiority over other European powers?
  - SagelyGuru 12y ago
    There were other aspects to it apart from good science, education and technology, all based on liberal thinking but, in a nutshell, yes. What I am saying is that these were the main reasons for the British Empire eclipsing the other European powers. It did not just happen totally by chance in one particular lucky country, out of nothing. If that is a "whiggish view", then I guess I am a whig.
    - mercurial 12y ago
      I assume you're talking about the Industrial Revolution, something that came rather late. At the time of Newton, and afterwards, there was no shortage of scientists of renown in catholic countries. But considering the English Reformation as the leading reason for the Industrial Revolution to happen in England and not elsewhere is far from an accepted opinion.

hessenwolf 12y ago

Exploring the counterfactual allows us to reveal holes in our understanding, by setting up hypotheses and allowing them to be knocked down by argument. And it's fun.

SagelyGuru 12y ago

But it is not a conjecture. The results are plain to see, that is my point. We really did land on the moon. People like Sir Isaac Newton, who by the way refused the holy orders of the Anglican Church too, were nonetheless allowed to pursue their interests without being threatened by the inquisition. That is what laid the foundations. I am surprised and saddened for you, to get -4 votes here of all places. I would have thought that at least some of you may have understood and appreciated the important connection between free thought and scientific and technical progress and the fact that Henry VIII just may have made that possible in Britain. Instead all I get is cheap jibes about "whiggish view" and Mussolini. Sad. And no, it really is not interesting to see regurgitated back the standard TV line that "it was all to do with his gonads". Kings can and do discreetly satisfy their gonads without having to go through difficult public divorces.

mercurial 12y ago
> But it is not a conjecture. The results are plain to see, that is my point. We really did land on the moon. People like Sir Isaac Newton, who by the way refused the holy orders of the Anglican Church too, were nonetheless allowed to pursue their interests without being threatened by the inquisition. That is what laid the foundations. The foundation of what? Is your argument that the success of the British Empire was due to a post-Henri VIII technological superiority over other European powers?
- SagelyGuru 12y ago
  There were other aspects to it apart from good science, education and technology, all based on liberal thinking but, in a nutshell, yes. What I am saying is that these were the main reasons for the British Empire eclipsing the other European powers. It did not just happen totally by chance in one particular lucky country, out of nothing. If that is a "whiggish view", then I guess I am a whig.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    I assume you're talking about the Industrial Revolution, something that came rather late. At the time of Newton, and afterwards, there was no shortage of scientists of renown in catholic countries. But considering the English Reformation as the leading reason for the Industrial Revolution to happen in England and not elsewhere is far from an accepted opinion.