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This is a variant of the Robert Frost poem, "The Road Not Taken" if you didn't know! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taking_the_road_less_traveled ht

by veb 12y ago

This is a variant of the Robert Frost poem, "The Road Not Taken" if you didn't know! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taking_the_road_less_traveled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taking_the_road_less_...

TeMPOraL 12y ago
Apparently this poem is not meant to encourage taking that less traveled road. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken#Analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken#Analysis Also, reminds me of my favourite variant of this quote: "Two roads diverged in the woods. I took the one less traveled, and had to eat bugs until Park rangers rescued me." ( from http://lesswrong.com/lw/xm/building_weirdtopia/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/xm/building_weirdtopia/ )
- rquantz 12y ago
  This. I wish I were not someone who had pet peeves, but this is one of them. People quoting maxims from great literature that are meant ironically. Robert Frost seems particularly prone to it. See also "good fences make good neighbors." And Shakespeare of course - this applies to everything Polonius said, for instance: "neither a barrower not a lender be," and that old favorite, "to thine own self be true."
  - phaemon 12y ago
    In what way is "neither a borrower nor a lender be" ironic?
    - rquantz 12y ago
      Well, first you have to consider the source. Polonius is a boor and a blowhard. Then consider what he says. Both borrowing and lending can be solid financial decisions. Finance was in its infancy in Elizabethan England, but the British were early adopters in the field and would have known better. Shakespeare also would have been familiar with classical ideas about liberality as a virtue. But the main takeaway is that Polonius is an idiot and his advice to Laertes should be considered platitudes at best and terrible counsel at worst.
      - phaemon 12y ago
        I think that the context makes it pretty clear that he's talking about borrowing and lending between friends. Shakespeare would indeed have been aware of it, as it was commonplace for young noblemen to run up ruinous debts from gambling and borrowing from each other and moneylenders (who were only too happy to lend to the heir to an estate). Families lost their wealth and estates because of it. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" is extremely good advice in this context. And, frankly, remains so. Also, I reckon people are generally too harsh on Polonius. Sure, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but in this scene he just seems like an old man who's worried about his son leaving home and trying to give him good advice. That he can't come up with anything genuine to himself is, I think, a little sad. But I suspect most of us have endured our parents sending us off with good advice on our first time leaving home. And generally that advice seems to be similarly cliched ("Remember to eat properly...and make sure when you're going out, you know how to get home...and wrap up warm when it's cold out..."). I doubt I'll do much better when my time comes!
vram22 12y ago
Yes, had seen that, much later (just a few weeks ago), via another chain of links. Thanks, though. Interestingly, as Temporal says in a sibling comment, analysts of Frost's poem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken (linked to from your link) take it to mean something else, somewhat the reverse. I prefer my own (or rather, that background image's) more positive (IMO) interpretation, though :) And that's why I had it on my PC for long. Friends liked it too.

by veb 12y ago

TeMPOraL 12y ago

Apparently this poem is not meant to encourage taking that less traveled road. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken#Analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken#Analysis Also, reminds me of my favourite variant of this quote: "Two roads diverged in the woods. I took the one less traveled, and had to eat bugs until Park rangers rescued me." ( from http://lesswrong.com/lw/xm/building_weirdtopia/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/xm/building_weirdtopia/ )

rquantz 12y ago
This. I wish I were not someone who had pet peeves, but this is one of them. People quoting maxims from great literature that are meant ironically. Robert Frost seems particularly prone to it. See also "good fences make good neighbors." And Shakespeare of course - this applies to everything Polonius said, for instance: "neither a barrower not a lender be," and that old favorite, "to thine own self be true."
- phaemon 12y ago
  In what way is "neither a borrower nor a lender be" ironic?
  - rquantz 12y ago
    Well, first you have to consider the source. Polonius is a boor and a blowhard. Then consider what he says. Both borrowing and lending can be solid financial decisions. Finance was in its infancy in Elizabethan England, but the British were early adopters in the field and would have known better. Shakespeare also would have been familiar with classical ideas about liberality as a virtue. But the main takeaway is that Polonius is an idiot and his advice to Laertes should be considered platitudes at best and terrible counsel at worst.
    - phaemon 12y ago
      I think that the context makes it pretty clear that he's talking about borrowing and lending between friends. Shakespeare would indeed have been aware of it, as it was commonplace for young noblemen to run up ruinous debts from gambling and borrowing from each other and moneylenders (who were only too happy to lend to the heir to an estate). Families lost their wealth and estates because of it. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" is extremely good advice in this context. And, frankly, remains so. Also, I reckon people are generally too harsh on Polonius. Sure, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but in this scene he just seems like an old man who's worried about his son leaving home and trying to give him good advice. That he can't come up with anything genuine to himself is, I think, a little sad. But I suspect most of us have endured our parents sending us off with good advice on our first time leaving home. And generally that advice seems to be similarly cliched ("Remember to eat properly...and make sure when you're going out, you know how to get home...and wrap up warm when it's cold out..."). I doubt I'll do much better when my time comes!

vram22 12y ago

Yes, had seen that, much later (just a few weeks ago), via another chain of links. Thanks, though. Interestingly, as Temporal says in a sibling comment, analysts of Frost's poem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken (linked to from your link) take it to mean something else, somewhat the reverse. I prefer my own (or rather, that background image's) more positive (IMO) interpretation, though :) And that's why I had it on my PC for long. Friends liked it too.