5 ms·

it's called "opportunity cost"; most ppl wouldn't mind when the opportunity is good enough. will Chad finish a coding test if Apple/Google asks? i doubt anybody

it's called "opportunity cost"; most ppl wouldn't mind when the opportunity is good enough. will Chad finish a coding test if Apple/Google asks? i doubt anybody would refuse knowing it might lead to a $200k+/yr job.

fsk 12y ago
But every lame startup acts like they're Google/Apple/Facebook. If you're a no-name startup, why should I spend 2-40 hours for the privilege of maybe meeting you?
- vonnik 12y ago
  You shouldn't. One partial solution to the inefficiency of the job market would be a standardized and centralized coding challenge that software engineers could take once and show to many potential employers. In fact, several startups are trying to create something like that. HackerRank is one example. TrueAbility is another, specific for DevOps. These are both great ideas because employers get the information they need and engineers don't have to waste time on repeated challenges. In the end, though, it's just a prelude to showing what you can do in person, since every online test will be hacked.
  - fsk 12y ago
    Maybe everyone could go somewhere, study and be tested for a couple years, so they are certified as having basic competence? I have a CS degree with multiple honors fron a top 10 university. What was the point of that? Can't I skip the "prove you have basic competence" pre-interview screening?
    - vonnik 12y ago
      With luck, the CS degree gave you the skills to perform on the job. Unfortunately, many CS degrees do not guarantee basic competence. The problems of industry are different from the problems of academia. Things like academic pedigree and GPA don't correlate with performance on the job. This is a truth many companies learn painfully.
- lingua_franca 12y ago
  lame firms will figure it out after being turned down several times, and eventually change the procedure. but hot firms can do whatever they want bcoz there r way more candidates than vacancies. that's what we call a "free market".
  - vonnik 12y ago
    There are way more candidates than vacancies for some firms. But there is way more work to do than competent individuals to do it. So companies will always be chasing the top talent. It's kind of a love triangle.
    - lingua_franca 12y ago
      yeah right i wanted to chase Kristen Stewart so bad, but why was i only able to date friends of my friends? so sad...
      - fsk 12y ago
        Actually, she wanted to date you, but when you asked her to write a 1000 word essay on why she would be a great girlfriend, she decided to forget it.
        vonnik 12y ago
        Recruiting should be about incremental escalations of commitment, where a positive result at each stage leads to more and more information exchanged. Big upfront applications are a mistake.
chad_strategic 12y ago
No, I'm not interested. $200K != happiness

fsk 12y ago

But every lame startup acts like they're Google/Apple/Facebook. If you're a no-name startup, why should I spend 2-40 hours for the privilege of maybe meeting you?

vonnik 12y ago
You shouldn't. One partial solution to the inefficiency of the job market would be a standardized and centralized coding challenge that software engineers could take once and show to many potential employers. In fact, several startups are trying to create something like that. HackerRank is one example. TrueAbility is another, specific for DevOps. These are both great ideas because employers get the information they need and engineers don't have to waste time on repeated challenges. In the end, though, it's just a prelude to showing what you can do in person, since every online test will be hacked.
- fsk 12y ago
  Maybe everyone could go somewhere, study and be tested for a couple years, so they are certified as having basic competence? I have a CS degree with multiple honors fron a top 10 university. What was the point of that? Can't I skip the "prove you have basic competence" pre-interview screening?
  - vonnik 12y ago
    With luck, the CS degree gave you the skills to perform on the job. Unfortunately, many CS degrees do not guarantee basic competence. The problems of industry are different from the problems of academia. Things like academic pedigree and GPA don't correlate with performance on the job. This is a truth many companies learn painfully.
lingua_franca 12y ago
lame firms will figure it out after being turned down several times, and eventually change the procedure. but hot firms can do whatever they want bcoz there r way more candidates than vacancies. that's what we call a "free market".
- vonnik 12y ago
  There are way more candidates than vacancies for some firms. But there is way more work to do than competent individuals to do it. So companies will always be chasing the top talent. It's kind of a love triangle.
  - lingua_franca 12y ago
    yeah right i wanted to chase Kristen Stewart so bad, but why was i only able to date friends of my friends? so sad...
    - fsk 12y ago
      Actually, she wanted to date you, but when you asked her to write a 1000 word essay on why she would be a great girlfriend, she decided to forget it.
      - vonnik 12y ago
        Recruiting should be about incremental escalations of commitment, where a positive result at each stage leads to more and more information exchanged. Big upfront applications are a mistake.

chad_strategic 12y ago

No, I'm not interested. $200K != happiness