5 ms·

There's still a person spending their minutes on a random, menial task, it's just not someone with a Hacker News account anymore.

VikingCoder 12y ago
Yes, but with scale, they'll get better at it. They might even be able to automate large portions of it. Also, it's a person spending their minutes on it, who might not have a better job available to them at the time. Don't get mad because someone is willing to OFFER money for a service that YOU would find demeaning to provide. Just don't take that job. Problem solved. Sheesh.
- kefka 12y ago
  Great idea. If you're not in the gig economy, you're a turk.
  - VikingCoder 12y ago
    Just off the top of my head, World of Warcraft gold farmers. This has been a thing for a LONG TIME.
    - wpietri 12y ago
      Is you argument really that if there is something that "has been a thing for a LONG TIME" that it isn't problematic and that we shouldn't be concerned about avoiding it?
      - VikingCoder 12y ago
        I'm seeking to improve the argument. Pretending that THIS is something new is a bad argument. If you want to assail the general category of what you consider to be demeaning jobs, then go for it.
        wpietri 12y ago
        No, you're doing far more than seeking to improve somebody else's argument. You're making your own argument, while pretending not to. This is clearly an argument: "Just don't take that job. Problem solved. Sheesh." It's not even a very good argument, in that you're just demonstrating the willful ignorance the previous poster was pointing out.
        VikingCoder 12y ago
        Hilarious. I think it's good for an economy to offer jobs, even ones you find demeaning. People are free to not take those jobs. If enough people don't take that job, then they'll have to either offer more money for the job, or they'll have to find a new way to do the job. I believe in markets. I believe in minimum wages as well, but those are not mutually exclusive concepts. You dismiss this entire line of reasoning as "willful ignorance," rather than ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO IT AND TELLING ME WHY YOU DISAGREE. Sorry, but that's just arrogant and rude. I had a completely different problem with kefka, which was that they said "Great idea." As though this concept of turkification were something new. It's not something new. Therefore, objecting to THIS idea on the basis of it "being a new idea" is a bad argument. If you want to reject the entire category of turk jobs, that's ANOTHER DISCUSSION. See? Two different arguments. So don't conflate them, okay?
        wpietri 12y ago
        I understand that you have a faith in markets; free-market fundamentalism is depressingly common on HN. This points out a problem, which is that we are not acting with sufficient empathy toward the people who are doing the work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108579 Here you shallowly dismiss that the problem is a problem at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108684 That's the willful ignorance I'm talking about. It is not my job to solve your ignorance here, but suffice to say that I don't think the markets-solve-everything hypothesis stands up when you look at historical problems with labor issues over, say, the last century. Markets are fine tools when we set out to solve a particular problem, but they have been poor masters.
    - kefka 12y ago
      Yes, informal 'working for gold' has happened in quite a few MMOs where the grind is required to play. However, many MMOs (Eve excluded) usually ban or restrict selling gold for USD. mTurk and the up coming gig economy are legal ways to extract money right now, as a IT1099

VikingCoder 12y ago

Yes, but with scale, they'll get better at it. They might even be able to automate large portions of it. Also, it's a person spending their minutes on it, who might not have a better job available to them at the time. Don't get mad because someone is willing to OFFER money for a service that YOU would find demeaning to provide. Just don't take that job. Problem solved. Sheesh.

kefka 12y ago
Great idea. If you're not in the gig economy, you're a turk.
- VikingCoder 12y ago
  Just off the top of my head, World of Warcraft gold farmers. This has been a thing for a LONG TIME.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    Is you argument really that if there is something that "has been a thing for a LONG TIME" that it isn't problematic and that we shouldn't be concerned about avoiding it?
    - VikingCoder 12y ago
      I'm seeking to improve the argument. Pretending that THIS is something new is a bad argument. If you want to assail the general category of what you consider to be demeaning jobs, then go for it.
      - wpietri 12y ago
        No, you're doing far more than seeking to improve somebody else's argument. You're making your own argument, while pretending not to. This is clearly an argument: "Just don't take that job. Problem solved. Sheesh." It's not even a very good argument, in that you're just demonstrating the willful ignorance the previous poster was pointing out.
        VikingCoder 12y ago
        Hilarious. I think it's good for an economy to offer jobs, even ones you find demeaning. People are free to not take those jobs. If enough people don't take that job, then they'll have to either offer more money for the job, or they'll have to find a new way to do the job. I believe in markets. I believe in minimum wages as well, but those are not mutually exclusive concepts. You dismiss this entire line of reasoning as "willful ignorance," rather than ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO IT AND TELLING ME WHY YOU DISAGREE. Sorry, but that's just arrogant and rude. I had a completely different problem with kefka, which was that they said "Great idea." As though this concept of turkification were something new. It's not something new. Therefore, objecting to THIS idea on the basis of it "being a new idea" is a bad argument. If you want to reject the entire category of turk jobs, that's ANOTHER DISCUSSION. See? Two different arguments. So don't conflate them, okay?
        wpietri 12y ago
        I understand that you have a faith in markets; free-market fundamentalism is depressingly common on HN. This points out a problem, which is that we are not acting with sufficient empathy toward the people who are doing the work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108579 Here you shallowly dismiss that the problem is a problem at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9108684 That's the willful ignorance I'm talking about. It is not my job to solve your ignorance here, but suffice to say that I don't think the markets-solve-everything hypothesis stands up when you look at historical problems with labor issues over, say, the last century. Markets are fine tools when we set out to solve a particular problem, but they have been poor masters.
  - kefka 12y ago
    Yes, informal 'working for gold' has happened in quite a few MMOs where the grind is required to play. However, many MMOs (Eve excluded) usually ban or restrict selling gold for USD. mTurk and the up coming gig economy are legal ways to extract money right now, as a IT1099