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Cheating is a natural consequence of society putting a huge value on grade-point-averages and other dullard measures of achievement. If I had to sit through a

Cheating is a natural consequence of society putting a huge value on grade-point-averages and other dullard measures of achievement. If I had to sit through a lecture room with 200 students (TWO HUNDRED!) and I was absolutely confident that the professor cannot possibly give a shit about my learning in this crowd, I too would cheat.

pavel_lishin 12y ago
Wouldn't that only harm you? Wouldn't you only be cheating yourself? I don't understand why your professors' interest in your personal learning would impact your own desire to learn. (Thinking about it a bit more, I can vaguely understand this if it's a required class that you have no actual interest in - an elective you had to take because all others were taken, or if you were retaking a class that you were already very familiar with - but at that point, cheating would be redundant.)
- littletimmy 12y ago
  I understand the difference between our thoughts. Where we differ is that I think college is not a place of learning. In general, it is a sequence of hoops to sort out the labor force.
  - pavel_lishin 12y ago
    I suppose that in that case, your approach makes sense.
  - mannykannot 12y ago
    I learned a lot of interesting and useful things at college, and so did many of the other students. If your opinion is based on actual attendance at a college, it seems you had an unfortunate experience. If that experience was at a place focused on teaching to multiple-choice examinations, that could explain it.
    - littletimmy 12y ago
      It was actually at an ivy league school. But you're right in saying that I did have a bitter experience with college.
- mannykannot 12y ago
  Cheating harms every honest student, by casting doubt on their efforts and achievements.
deleted 12y ago
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hurin 12y ago
It's probably a 1st year lecture, those students that are actually concentrating in biology or a related-field already took an AP in high-school, and the rest need to fill graduation requirements with a science course. It's a test to see if you read a textbook for 20 hours.
chucksmash 12y ago
"a natural consequence of society......" You could use this justification to rationalize any sort of unethical behavior you like. Embezzlement is a natural consequence of society putting a huge value on owning a Benz and other dullard measures of achievement! That is to say, I disagree wholeheartedly.
- littletimmy 12y ago
  There is a world of difference between the importance of a GPA and the importance of a Benz. Low GPA means no good job straight out of college (because apparently you need a 3.5+ from an ivy league school to model in excel) means in a lot of cases lesser income for the rest of your life. No Benz means you can drive a Toyota. Big whoop.
  - chucksmash 12y ago
    Why do you think you are automatically entitled to a good job straight out of college? Your reply vis-a-vis a Mercedes vs lifetime earnings seems to imply that you are willing to sell your integrity for some value x: $(Benz - Toyota) < x <= ~$2,000,000 (spread out over a lifetime). I'm a bit incredulous that your reply was basically that the only reason you would act ethically in my hypothetical situation was because you required a higher bribe.
    - littletimmy 12y ago
      I don't think one is entitled to a good job straight out of college. I do, however, think that in a marketplace saturated by unfairness (berkowitz's dad is a partner let's hire him) and bullshit (jump through these hoops to make us like you), one is entitled to employ any and all effort necessary to further one's interests.
      - smcgivern 12y ago
        Would you also say that lying on your resume, and in interviews, is a natural consequence of society?

pavel_lishin 12y ago

Wouldn't that only harm you? Wouldn't you only be cheating yourself? I don't understand why your professors' interest in your personal learning would impact your own desire to learn. (Thinking about it a bit more, I can vaguely understand this if it's a required class that you have no actual interest in - an elective you had to take because all others were taken, or if you were retaking a class that you were already very familiar with - but at that point, cheating would be redundant.)

littletimmy 12y ago
I understand the difference between our thoughts. Where we differ is that I think college is not a place of learning. In general, it is a sequence of hoops to sort out the labor force.
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  I suppose that in that case, your approach makes sense.
- mannykannot 12y ago
  I learned a lot of interesting and useful things at college, and so did many of the other students. If your opinion is based on actual attendance at a college, it seems you had an unfortunate experience. If that experience was at a place focused on teaching to multiple-choice examinations, that could explain it.
  - littletimmy 12y ago
    It was actually at an ivy league school. But you're right in saying that I did have a bitter experience with college.
mannykannot 12y ago
Cheating harms every honest student, by casting doubt on their efforts and achievements.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

hurin 12y ago

It's probably a 1st year lecture, those students that are actually concentrating in biology or a related-field already took an AP in high-school, and the rest need to fill graduation requirements with a science course. It's a test to see if you read a textbook for 20 hours.

chucksmash 12y ago

"a natural consequence of society......" You could use this justification to rationalize any sort of unethical behavior you like. Embezzlement is a natural consequence of society putting a huge value on owning a Benz and other dullard measures of achievement! That is to say, I disagree wholeheartedly.

littletimmy 12y ago
There is a world of difference between the importance of a GPA and the importance of a Benz. Low GPA means no good job straight out of college (because apparently you need a 3.5+ from an ivy league school to model in excel) means in a lot of cases lesser income for the rest of your life. No Benz means you can drive a Toyota. Big whoop.
- chucksmash 12y ago
  Why do you think you are automatically entitled to a good job straight out of college? Your reply vis-a-vis a Mercedes vs lifetime earnings seems to imply that you are willing to sell your integrity for some value x: $(Benz - Toyota) < x <= ~$2,000,000 (spread out over a lifetime). I'm a bit incredulous that your reply was basically that the only reason you would act ethically in my hypothetical situation was because you required a higher bribe.
  - littletimmy 12y ago
    I don't think one is entitled to a good job straight out of college. I do, however, think that in a marketplace saturated by unfairness (berkowitz's dad is a partner let's hire him) and bullshit (jump through these hoops to make us like you), one is entitled to employ any and all effort necessary to further one's interests.
    - smcgivern 12y ago
      Would you also say that lying on your resume, and in interviews, is a natural consequence of society?