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So when does a "customer development call" become a cold call? As a small startup trying to talk to potential customers how does this affect me? All these books

by Hates_ 12y ago

So when does a "customer development call" become a cold call? As a small startup trying to talk to potential customers how does this affect me? All these books on startups talk about picking up the phone and talking to people.

mhurron 12y ago
Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate they would be involved in your marketing actions? No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.
- AndrewKemendo 12y ago
  No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people. Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start somewhere and a call is as good as any.
  - eyeface 12y ago
    The problem is not that cold calling doesn't work, it's that I do not want you to cold call me.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    If your definition of "works" is "is rewarding for the perp", then sure all sorts of things "work". Theft, fraud, and extortion, for example, all work wonderfully well -- for the mafia. Our laws are mainly about things that "work", because if they didn't work, people wouldn't do them enough to matter. Your mistake is not accounting for the negative externalities. Cold calling and spam both can "work" for the sending party because it lets them find the very small proportion of people who they can sucker into whatever they're pushing. But they impose costs upon other people too, and for them spamming and cold calling definitely doesn't work. Which is why we took the time to outlaw both of them in the US.
    - AndrewKemendo 12y ago
      sucker into whatever they're pushing This is the same "If you build it they will come" logic that doom so many startups. The reality is that even if you have a perfect solution to someone's problem you still have to go sell it to them. Uber started with cold calls, so did many other successful startups. It's the lowest barrier to entry there is. Lets also differentiate between b2b cold calls which is what I have in mind mostly, and b2c cold calling. I think the latter is probably magnitudes less effective and more "sleazy" than the former and there are better ways of targeting advertising at individual consumers at this point.
      - wpietri 12y ago
        It is the same logic only if you believe there is no possible way to sell people other than cold calls. Otherwise it is different logic. But hey, nice straw man. Maybe you'll feel better if you attack it some more? Your point that cold calling works is repetitive, and was previously addressed. And of course you believe that the thing you did/want to do is less sleazy. All people doing sleazy things believe that whatever they're doing is in fact ok, or at least justifiable. That's what we humans are really good at: justifying our own particular bullshit.
  - ubernostrum 12y ago
    Lots of things work, but not all things are legal or ethical. You don't have an automatic right to inflict yourself on others, or to take up the time of others. Learn to live with that and find something that works and is consistent with it.
dazc 12y ago
If your call starts: "Hello Mr Smith and how are you today?" or "...just a quick call" or "...just a courtesy call" You are annoying people and should stop doing it.
- AndrewKemendo 12y ago
  What if it starts with something like?: "Hi I am the founder of a company in your area which has a service that I think might fit your needs..." or "I sent you an email recently and wanted to see if you had a chance to look at it..." (assuming you sent them an email) I feel like there is a way to cold call effectively by picking groups of people who you think would be more receptive and then approaching them as yourself. Aside from that I can't tell you how many first customers I have heard say something like: "they just kept bugging us, so eventually I just had to listen to what they had to say...and we loved it!" Even if that is 1/50 it's still a huge win.
  - dazc 12y ago
    Well avoiding the opening lines that nearly all cold callers seem to use is going to be a plus. You might still annoy people but you may also get further through your pitch before the phone is slammed down at the other end.
deleted 12y ago
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wpietri 12y ago
Not sure where you got the idea that customer development calls should be cold calls. When I teach this stuff, I encourage people to start with their social network and industry events so they can meet people in their target market. Then after you do a solid interview with them, it's pretty easy to say, "Who else in [target market description] should I talk to learn more? Will you introduce us?" Customer development interviews go way better with an intro from a trusted source who has already vetted you. (And for those not familiar with Lean Startup jargon, "customer development" is the process by which you figure out both who your market really is and what product will serve them. It is not a synonym for sales.)

by Hates_ 12y ago

mhurron 12y ago

Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate they would be involved in your marketing actions? No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago
No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people. Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start somewhere and a call is as good as any.
- eyeface 12y ago
  The problem is not that cold calling doesn't work, it's that I do not want you to cold call me.
- wpietri 12y ago
  If your definition of "works" is "is rewarding for the perp", then sure all sorts of things "work". Theft, fraud, and extortion, for example, all work wonderfully well -- for the mafia. Our laws are mainly about things that "work", because if they didn't work, people wouldn't do them enough to matter. Your mistake is not accounting for the negative externalities. Cold calling and spam both can "work" for the sending party because it lets them find the very small proportion of people who they can sucker into whatever they're pushing. But they impose costs upon other people too, and for them spamming and cold calling definitely doesn't work. Which is why we took the time to outlaw both of them in the US.
  - AndrewKemendo 12y ago
    sucker into whatever they're pushing This is the same "If you build it they will come" logic that doom so many startups. The reality is that even if you have a perfect solution to someone's problem you still have to go sell it to them. Uber started with cold calls, so did many other successful startups. It's the lowest barrier to entry there is. Lets also differentiate between b2b cold calls which is what I have in mind mostly, and b2c cold calling. I think the latter is probably magnitudes less effective and more "sleazy" than the former and there are better ways of targeting advertising at individual consumers at this point.
    - wpietri 12y ago
      It is the same logic only if you believe there is no possible way to sell people other than cold calls. Otherwise it is different logic. But hey, nice straw man. Maybe you'll feel better if you attack it some more? Your point that cold calling works is repetitive, and was previously addressed. And of course you believe that the thing you did/want to do is less sleazy. All people doing sleazy things believe that whatever they're doing is in fact ok, or at least justifiable. That's what we humans are really good at: justifying our own particular bullshit.
- ubernostrum 12y ago
  Lots of things work, but not all things are legal or ethical. You don't have an automatic right to inflict yourself on others, or to take up the time of others. Learn to live with that and find something that works and is consistent with it.

dazc 12y ago

If your call starts: "Hello Mr Smith and how are you today?" or "...just a quick call" or "...just a courtesy call" You are annoying people and should stop doing it.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago
What if it starts with something like?: "Hi I am the founder of a company in your area which has a service that I think might fit your needs..." or "I sent you an email recently and wanted to see if you had a chance to look at it..." (assuming you sent them an email) I feel like there is a way to cold call effectively by picking groups of people who you think would be more receptive and then approaching them as yourself. Aside from that I can't tell you how many first customers I have heard say something like: "they just kept bugging us, so eventually I just had to listen to what they had to say...and we loved it!" Even if that is 1/50 it's still a huge win.
- dazc 12y ago
  Well avoiding the opening lines that nearly all cold callers seem to use is going to be a plus. You might still annoy people but you may also get further through your pitch before the phone is slammed down at the other end.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

wpietri 12y ago

Not sure where you got the idea that customer development calls should be cold calls. When I teach this stuff, I encourage people to start with their social network and industry events so they can meet people in their target market. Then after you do a solid interview with them, it's pretty easy to say, "Who else in [target market description] should I talk to learn more? Will you introduce us?" Customer development interviews go way better with an intro from a trusted source who has already vetted you. (And for those not familiar with Lean Startup jargon, "customer development" is the process by which you figure out both who your market really is and what product will serve them. It is not a synonym for sales.)