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>why can't electronics reproduce the sound of a violin? Well, if you're referring to synthesis based on physical modeling algorithms, it's possible, but it's j

by pierrec 12y ago

>why can't electronics reproduce the sound of a violin? Well, if you're referring to synthesis based on physical modeling algorithms, it's possible, but it's just too complicated. A basic, not-too-expressive sound is easy to achieve, and already existed back in the days of the Ondes Martenot [1]. Getting the body's resonance is not the hardest part, you can just tweak it until you get something that you like. But the most difficult part to reproduce about a violin is certainly the human and his interaction with the instrument. Sure, you could use a ribbon controller or one of the modern touch-based controllers [2], but it's still just a "spherical cow on a frictionless plane". Interaction between a string's vibration and the player's fingers is infinitely subtle. Currently, synths based on sample banks are the best simulation of a violin that you can get. Just look up "violin VSTi" on your favorite search engine and you'll find many very realistic synths. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9UBjrUjwo#t=243 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9UBjrUjwo#t=243 [2]: see the Persephone, the Hanken Continuum, and the ROLI Seaboard

WalterBright 12y ago
Thanks for the information, but I was interested in why recording the sound with a microphone and playing it back does not remotely sound like a live violin.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  Given that the speakers at the Yanni show had a perceptible background hiss, it's obvious that they were not in fact using the best equipment possible. You're working from a single data point and drawing a super-unreasonable conclusion. I have heard amplified and recorded violins that sound exactly as they should. Without knowing what they were actually using, it's hard to pinpoint why it didn't sound right, but most microphones and speakers don't have flat responses (so the reproduced sound will be different), the signal could have been EQd to hell and back by the sound guy, maybe the actual violin player was sick and they couldn't get a sub so they just put a roadie up on stage, and maybe they weren't using a microphone but rather a piezo transducer and didn't match its impedance with an appropriate preamp. Way too many variables.
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Because: 1. You'll usually close-mike the sound, so you don't get any room acoustics. If you're live, you have to close-mike the sound to avoid feedback. 2. If the violin has a bridge transducer, the sound will tend to the edgy and harsh. You won't get the full resonance of the body. 3. Pickup mikes on the body have similar problems. 4. Unless you have high-end neutral studio-grade speakers (~$50k), they'll add an EQ curve of their own. Most speakers are designed to sound a little bright, so that adds extra harshness. A very expensive mike setup with very expensive speakers will sound very much like a live violin if the mikes are placed correctly. Anything other than that won't, with varying degrees of tonal distortion. There's also a psychoacoustic effect: you never listen to live sound the same way you listen to recorded sound. If you record a conversation and listen back to it you'll hear all kinds of details and distractions. When sound is coming live from a physical source you can see, your brain filters out a lot of sonic detail so it can distill the important content.
- gtani 12y ago
  I think for those venues, the practical reason is that a battery of microphone stands would be visually intrusive, so they (esp classical venues) rely on mikes suspended from the ceiling or clip on condensor mikes like DPA's. Additionally, violin and violists are notorious for swaying and turning away from microphones. In the studio, i think they generally start with large and small diaphgram condensors and ribbon mikes for good results.

by pierrec 12y ago

WalterBright 12y ago

Thanks for the information, but I was interested in why recording the sound with a microphone and playing it back does not remotely sound like a live violin.

joshuapants 12y ago
Given that the speakers at the Yanni show had a perceptible background hiss, it's obvious that they were not in fact using the best equipment possible. You're working from a single data point and drawing a super-unreasonable conclusion. I have heard amplified and recorded violins that sound exactly as they should. Without knowing what they were actually using, it's hard to pinpoint why it didn't sound right, but most microphones and speakers don't have flat responses (so the reproduced sound will be different), the signal could have been EQd to hell and back by the sound guy, maybe the actual violin player was sick and they couldn't get a sub so they just put a roadie up on stage, and maybe they weren't using a microphone but rather a piezo transducer and didn't match its impedance with an appropriate preamp. Way too many variables.
TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Because: 1. You'll usually close-mike the sound, so you don't get any room acoustics. If you're live, you have to close-mike the sound to avoid feedback. 2. If the violin has a bridge transducer, the sound will tend to the edgy and harsh. You won't get the full resonance of the body. 3. Pickup mikes on the body have similar problems. 4. Unless you have high-end neutral studio-grade speakers (~$50k), they'll add an EQ curve of their own. Most speakers are designed to sound a little bright, so that adds extra harshness. A very expensive mike setup with very expensive speakers will sound very much like a live violin if the mikes are placed correctly. Anything other than that won't, with varying degrees of tonal distortion. There's also a psychoacoustic effect: you never listen to live sound the same way you listen to recorded sound. If you record a conversation and listen back to it you'll hear all kinds of details and distractions. When sound is coming live from a physical source you can see, your brain filters out a lot of sonic detail so it can distill the important content.
gtani 12y ago
I think for those venues, the practical reason is that a battery of microphone stands would be visually intrusive, so they (esp classical venues) rely on mikes suspended from the ceiling or clip on condensor mikes like DPA's. Additionally, violin and violists are notorious for swaying and turning away from microphones. In the studio, i think they generally start with large and small diaphgram condensors and ribbon mikes for good results.