4 ms·

Anybody have a link to the actual text of the rules?

Shivetya 12y ago
no and that is what is so damn infuriating about this process. Republican's concede? Really, they failed to make the rules public before we are subject to them and suddenly people crow victory? this is the same nonsense the haters did when the ACA was passed, a bunch of irrational hate because those who complained were "EVIL REPUBLICANS". Sheesh. Love being a libertarian but damned if both sides aren't dumb as rocks.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Anybody have a link to the actual text of the rules? Members and staff at the FCC have copies of whatever current drafts are circulating (which, by reports that there may be active discussions on at least one key point, there may be more than one), no one else does except as an unofficial leak (and any version that exists now may or may not be the version that gets voted on.) Otherwise, no. FCC orders are not released in preliminary form before they are approved. This is consistent with regulatory agency decisions in general, there is a formal process for release of orders, that involves approval. Certain orders are released as proposals for comment before being finalized -- this is called a "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" (NPRM). The FCC did, in fact, issue an NPRM on its open internet rules, which (along with the public comment on the NPRM) got plenty of notice here, in the mainstream media, etc. After comment on an NPRM, the agency reviews the comments, conducts further policy discussions, and can either abandon the effort, revise the policy and issue it as an order or issue a new, revised NPRM. All of these -- except abandoning the effort entirely -- require the agency to conduct a vote. Regulatory agencies don't release draft orders prior to vote of the agency (as distinct from NPRMs, which, while they aren't final orders, are final products of the agency, not pre-vote drafts) much the same way that courts don't release draft opinions before the judges have voted on them.
- remarkEon 12y ago
  I had a feeling. So just to be clear, this is not unique to the rule making surrounding Net Neutrality - this is the general process for federal agency rule making.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    Exactly, despite the fact that some people are trying to make this out as if this were some kind of special, unusual process that is evidence of nefarious intent.
    - protomyth 12y ago
      Traditionally the rules would appear in the Federal Register ( https://www.federalregister.gov https://www.federalregister.gov ) with a request for comment (check the proposed rules section).
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > Traditionally the rules would appear in the Federal Register ( https://www.federalregister.gov https://www.federalregister.gov ) with a request for comment (check the proposed rules section). No, traditionally -- as a preliminary draft that has not been voted on by the commission considering them -- they would not. They would only appear in the Federal Register for comment if and when they were adopted by the appropriate decisionmaker (which, in the case of the FCC or similar multimember regulatory commission, is by a vote of the commission) as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (which is a proposal with a comment period) or an Interim Final Rule with Comment Period (which is an adopted rule which also includes a built in comment period.) They would also appear in the Federal Register (but not with the intent of soliciting comment) when adopted as a Final Rule, though that does not include a comment period. Preliminary drafts that have not been adopted by the appropriate decisionmaker (such as proposals that have not yet been voted on by a commission such as the FCC) do not appear in the Federal Register. The NPRM in the matter under consideration was published in the Federal Register last year [0]. Whatever drafts Wheeler or other commission members have circulated based on the discussion, comments, etc., subsequent to that NPRM are not formally proposed regulations, and would not be expected to be published before being voted on. [0] https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/07/01/2014-14859/protecting-and-promoting-the-open-internet https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/07/01/2014-148...
        12y ago
deleted 12y ago
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- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > It might be here http://www.regulations.gov/ http://www.regulations.gov/ No, because its not a formally proposed regulation. Its an internal draft of an order to be adopted after comment on a regulatory proposal [0]. Note that actual regulatory documents -- whether proposals open for comment (NPRM), rules open for comment (Interim Final Rule with Comment Period), or Final Rules -- that get published on that site are decisions by regulatory entities that, where the agency is a commission like the FCC that acts by voting (as opposed to an executive branch agency with a single-decisionmaker-hierarchy), represent the outcome of a vote by the applicable commission. Drafts that are not yet voted on or approved by the applicable decisionmaker aren't formal regulatory documents and are not posted. Assuming the order is adopted, it will then have a final form and be published. [0] The "Protecting and Promoting the Open Internet" Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) released last year http://www.fcc.gov/document/protecting-and-promoting-open-internet-nprm http://www.fcc.gov/document/protecting-and-promoting-open-in...

no and that is what is so damn infuriating about this process. Republican's concede? Really, they failed to make the rules public before we are subject to them and suddenly people crow victory? this is the same nonsense the haters did when the ACA was passed, a bunch of irrational hate because those who complained were "EVIL REPUBLICANS". Sheesh. Love being a libertarian but damned if both sides aren't dumb as rocks.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Anybody have a link to the actual text of the rules? Members and staff at the FCC have copies of whatever current drafts are circulating (which, by reports that there may be active discussions on at least one key point, there may be more than one), no one else does except as an unofficial leak (and any version that exists now may or may not be the version that gets voted on.) Otherwise, no. FCC orders are not released in preliminary form before they are approved. This is consistent with regulatory agency decisions in general, there is a formal process for release of orders, that involves approval. Certain orders are released as proposals for comment before being finalized -- this is called a "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" (NPRM). The FCC did, in fact, issue an NPRM on its open internet rules, which (along with the public comment on the NPRM) got plenty of notice here, in the mainstream media, etc. After comment on an NPRM, the agency reviews the comments, conducts further policy discussions, and can either abandon the effort, revise the policy and issue it as an order or issue a new, revised NPRM. All of these -- except abandoning the effort entirely -- require the agency to conduct a vote. Regulatory agencies don't release draft orders prior to vote of the agency (as distinct from NPRMs, which, while they aren't final orders, are final products of the agency, not pre-vote drafts) much the same way that courts don't release draft opinions before the judges have voted on them.

remarkEon 12y ago
I had a feeling. So just to be clear, this is not unique to the rule making surrounding Net Neutrality - this is the general process for federal agency rule making.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Exactly, despite the fact that some people are trying to make this out as if this were some kind of special, unusual process that is evidence of nefarious intent.
  - protomyth 12y ago
    Traditionally the rules would appear in the Federal Register ( https://www.federalregister.gov https://www.federalregister.gov ) with a request for comment (check the proposed rules section).
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Traditionally the rules would appear in the Federal Register ( https://www.federalregister.gov https://www.federalregister.gov ) with a request for comment (check the proposed rules section). No, traditionally -- as a preliminary draft that has not been voted on by the commission considering them -- they would not. They would only appear in the Federal Register for comment if and when they were adopted by the appropriate decisionmaker (which, in the case of the FCC or similar multimember regulatory commission, is by a vote of the commission) as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (which is a proposal with a comment period) or an Interim Final Rule with Comment Period (which is an adopted rule which also includes a built in comment period.) They would also appear in the Federal Register (but not with the intent of soliciting comment) when adopted as a Final Rule, though that does not include a comment period. Preliminary drafts that have not been adopted by the appropriate decisionmaker (such as proposals that have not yet been voted on by a commission such as the FCC) do not appear in the Federal Register. The NPRM in the matter under consideration was published in the Federal Register last year [0]. Whatever drafts Wheeler or other commission members have circulated based on the discussion, comments, etc., subsequent to that NPRM are not formally proposed regulations, and would not be expected to be published before being voted on. [0] https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/07/01/2014-14859/protecting-and-promoting-the-open-internet https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/07/01/2014-148...
      - 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

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dragonwriter 12y ago
> It might be here http://www.regulations.gov/ http://www.regulations.gov/ No, because its not a formally proposed regulation. Its an internal draft of an order to be adopted after comment on a regulatory proposal [0]. Note that actual regulatory documents -- whether proposals open for comment (NPRM), rules open for comment (Interim Final Rule with Comment Period), or Final Rules -- that get published on that site are decisions by regulatory entities that, where the agency is a commission like the FCC that acts by voting (as opposed to an executive branch agency with a single-decisionmaker-hierarchy), represent the outcome of a vote by the applicable commission. Drafts that are not yet voted on or approved by the applicable decisionmaker aren't formal regulatory documents and are not posted. Assuming the order is adopted, it will then have a final form and be published. [0] The "Protecting and Promoting the Open Internet" Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) released last year http://www.fcc.gov/document/protecting-and-promoting-open-internet-nprm http://www.fcc.gov/document/protecting-and-promoting-open-in...