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At $100-$150/hour $20k/month ranges from doable to dependable. If you are good and experienced I don't see why you couldn't bill that as a generalist. Also, ge

At $100-$150/hour $20k/month ranges from doable to dependable. If you are good and experienced I don't see why you couldn't bill that as a generalist. Also, generalist-vs-specialist depends on your perspective. To your clients, you are a specialist. :-) Personality-wise I'm really a generalist, but I've started thinking of myself as a specialist in full-stack Rails development. I don't think that's as oxymoronic as it sounds. I've done web applications for 15 years, and Rails for a long time. Besides Rails I can go deep on Postgres, Chef, and AWS, which I think all hangs together very nicely, and I can go broad on Javascript, machine learning, and Java/Python/C/iOS. You don't want me in charge of buying your routers or architecting your Django app, but it's not like all I do is Postgres performance tuning. HN folk would call me a generalist, I'm sure, but for a lot of clients, I'm specialized enough. Anyway, a generalist with 15 years experience might know more about x than a specialist with 2. :-)

blisterpeanuts 12y ago
Doesn't it also depend whether you bill by the hour or by the day/week? There was a discussion on freelancing a year or two back on HN where it came out that at a certain level of experience, you're better off bidding by the week, e.g. $5K/week or $10K/week because clients often prefer to think in terms of total project costs rather than hourly contractor costs.
- willtheperson 12y ago
  I have definitely noticed happier clients after offering a day rate. Not just for budget, but it can help some clients feel better about knowing "when".
maratd 12y ago
> At $100-$150/hour $20k/month ranges from doable to dependable. Err... math is off. 100 (rate) * 7 (full work day, don't get paid for lunch) * 5 (number of days in a week) * 4.3 (number of weeks in a month) = 15,050 That's 15K. And that's assuming you have a 100% full schedule and spend 0 time on invoicing/marketing/non-billable activities. Realistically, you're probably looking at a 10K rate per month with a 100/hour rate. The only way you'll see 20K is if you're the middle man hiring the help or you're not billing hourly/daily/whatever. Assuming you're not in the business of managing other engineers, not billing on time increments means fixed price jobs. Unfortunately, there is only a sliver of work that will fit well into that model. Where the job is very well defined, simple enough to do in a few hours, but complex enough that it can't just be handed off to any random joe. Not too many clients with that kind of work on a consistent basis. So the OP is right, the only way you'll see that kind of money is once in a blue moon, if you specialize in something niche and can charge 250/hour, or if you're managing other people.
- pjungwir 12y ago
  Well maybe I am working too hard. :-) But really, how many startup founders on HN are putting in 35 hour weeks? At $100/hr I don't think $20/mo is easy, but I'd say you could hit it once or twice a year. That's what I mean by "doable."
  - mattmanser 12y ago
    Your whole argument has collapsed, so :( The original quote was that it was more than $20k a month. For a decade. You're missing $5k a month and again, that's without having any time to market, bill, do your taxes, etc.
    - chaqke 12y ago
      ..perhaps he isn't at $100/hour?
    - pjungwir 12y ago
      I was replying to this: "my best months have been ~$18K". Sorry for trying to encourage someone. You're right that $20k minimum is a lot harder, at $100/hr probably impossible. But as a peak? Last year January, July, October, and December all had 23 weekdays. $100/hr * 9 hr/day * 23 days/mo = $20700/mo. If you have no commute and maybe do a Saturday or two that's pretty doable. I wouldn't make it routine, but I've occasionally had months that busy. Yes, not all hours are billable, but the non-billable stuff isn't that time consuming: Marketing: Aren't most freelancers turning away work right now? Billing: I push the "invoice" button and it's done. 1-2 hours a month. Taxes: If you're working for yourself you shouldn't do your own taxes. Anyway, I hope this is helpful to someone. Best of luck to you all.
      - porker 12y ago
        > $100/hr * 9 hr/day * 23 days/mo = $20700/mo. I know you mention a Saturday, but if you can bill 9 productive hours a day, I take my hat off to you. I could in my early-mid 20's, I can't any longer. > Marketing: Aren't most freelancers turning away work right now? Not here in the UK, not the ones I know of (that is, the ones who don't have part-time speaking careers or get featured in magazines).

blisterpeanuts 12y ago

Doesn't it also depend whether you bill by the hour or by the day/week? There was a discussion on freelancing a year or two back on HN where it came out that at a certain level of experience, you're better off bidding by the week, e.g. $5K/week or $10K/week because clients often prefer to think in terms of total project costs rather than hourly contractor costs.

willtheperson 12y ago
I have definitely noticed happier clients after offering a day rate. Not just for budget, but it can help some clients feel better about knowing "when".

maratd 12y ago

> At $100-$150/hour $20k/month ranges from doable to dependable. Err... math is off. 100 (rate) * 7 (full work day, don't get paid for lunch) * 5 (number of days in a week) * 4.3 (number of weeks in a month) = 15,050 That's 15K. And that's assuming you have a 100% full schedule and spend 0 time on invoicing/marketing/non-billable activities. Realistically, you're probably looking at a 10K rate per month with a 100/hour rate. The only way you'll see 20K is if you're the middle man hiring the help or you're not billing hourly/daily/whatever. Assuming you're not in the business of managing other engineers, not billing on time increments means fixed price jobs. Unfortunately, there is only a sliver of work that will fit well into that model. Where the job is very well defined, simple enough to do in a few hours, but complex enough that it can't just be handed off to any random joe. Not too many clients with that kind of work on a consistent basis. So the OP is right, the only way you'll see that kind of money is once in a blue moon, if you specialize in something niche and can charge 250/hour, or if you're managing other people.

pjungwir 12y ago
Well maybe I am working too hard. :-) But really, how many startup founders on HN are putting in 35 hour weeks? At $100/hr I don't think $20/mo is easy, but I'd say you could hit it once or twice a year. That's what I mean by "doable."
- mattmanser 12y ago
  Your whole argument has collapsed, so :( The original quote was that it was more than $20k a month. For a decade. You're missing $5k a month and again, that's without having any time to market, bill, do your taxes, etc.
  - chaqke 12y ago
    ..perhaps he isn't at $100/hour?
  - pjungwir 12y ago
    I was replying to this: "my best months have been ~$18K". Sorry for trying to encourage someone. You're right that $20k minimum is a lot harder, at $100/hr probably impossible. But as a peak? Last year January, July, October, and December all had 23 weekdays. $100/hr * 9 hr/day * 23 days/mo = $20700/mo. If you have no commute and maybe do a Saturday or two that's pretty doable. I wouldn't make it routine, but I've occasionally had months that busy. Yes, not all hours are billable, but the non-billable stuff isn't that time consuming: Marketing: Aren't most freelancers turning away work right now? Billing: I push the "invoice" button and it's done. 1-2 hours a month. Taxes: If you're working for yourself you shouldn't do your own taxes. Anyway, I hope this is helpful to someone. Best of luck to you all.
    - porker 12y ago
      > $100/hr * 9 hr/day * 23 days/mo = $20700/mo. I know you mention a Saturday, but if you can bill 9 productive hours a day, I take my hat off to you. I could in my early-mid 20's, I can't any longer. > Marketing: Aren't most freelancers turning away work right now? Not here in the UK, not the ones I know of (that is, the ones who don't have part-time speaking careers or get featured in magazines).