5 ms·

What is it about Tumblr that makes it so appealing to radical subcultures? And what is it that makes those subcultures thrive so well in that community?

wldcordeiro 12y ago
Pseudonymity is a big one and the relative lack of censoring (aside from self-censoring to fit into the prevalent group-think.)
- mrec 12y ago
  Pseudonymity cuts both ways in this context. You couldn't have something like Reddit's /r/suicidewatch without it.
  - wldcordeiro 12y ago
    I'll grant that the pseudonymity cuts both ways but in that mindset doesn't everything? There's trade-offs to pseudonymity, anonymity and real identities but each has contextual value.
timdaub 12y ago
Disclaimer: Only my gf uses tumblr, I don't. I think it's the bubble-ish environment that gets created not only by your followership but also by the fact that tumblr blogs rarely get feedback from outside. Once you've build a sufficient followership around you, every thought you express in that bubble gets some how discussed, accepted and developed. That's why for once tumblr blogs react so harsh to bubble-out-side topics (/r/shittumblrsays) and secondly why I believe it is such a good place for discussion of "radical subcultures".
- monksy 12y ago
  I was just about to mention the whole filter bubble deal. Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.
  - ectopic_cheeto 12y ago
    You can troll on tumblr and write criticism too. Many tumblr users do just that. You can also create echo chambers and circlejerks in Reddit too. /r/tumblrinaction and /r/kotakuinaction for example.
  - chimeracoder 12y ago
    > Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Combined with the bandwagon effect of downvotes in many (not all) subreddits, this has the same filter-bubble effect, just by virtue of pushing differently-minded people out (either to seek other subreddits, or off the site altogether). Just look at /r/politics and you'll see this in full force - with a few exceptions, almost any post expressing a somewhat conservative perspective is downvoted massively. This is one of the reason Reddit implemented [score hidden], which seems to have helped somewhat, but not entirely. > Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them. This isn't true only "radicals" - it's true everywhere. And I don't think it's the userbase that's different; it's the structure around it that makes the difference. In other words, the same people will group themselves differently on Tumblr and Reddit, even if they use both sites.
ohkine 12y ago
Being trans is not a 'radical subculture'
- igorgue 12y ago
  I think he's referring to "people who commit suicide virally" not just Transgenders.
  - intortus 12y ago
    Which is also not a radical subculture.
    - blueflow 12y ago
      This is not true. On tumblr, you can get bubbled with everything you say/do/are. And posts glorifying self-harm and suicide are still happening.
    - igorgue 12y ago
      Neither are programmers that don't explain themselves when they say "YOU'RE WRONG. I KNOW WHY BUT I WONT TELL YOU!" In other words you fit perfectly here :)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- adamnemecek 12y ago
  killing yourself is a pretty radical solution though.
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    And that may be obvious to an adult or someone with a fully developed mind but let's not pretend that when you were this age everything felt 100x more important than it was looking back. This is always going to be the case but it get's better as you get older. At that age being ostracised by classmates and/or parents can feel like the end of the world.
reubenmorais 12y ago
I don't know how it came to be this way, but what happens today is that Tumblr (or a good chunk of it) has a very strong culture of acceptance of everyone and everything, and of rallying to shut down people who try to disturb that safe haven. This applies to all sorts of things, from gender issues to things like self-harm and eating disorders like the article mentions. It's one of the very few places on the Internet where someone who identifies with _any_ radical subculture can expect to be accepted instead of ridiculed.
mintplant 12y ago
Off the top of my head, * Users can self-organize into hashtags, which are easier to navigate and more cohesive than on Twitter. * Custom blog designs make it feel more personal / intimate, à la LiveJournal or MySpace. * Reblogs let content spread quickly. Unlike Twitter, there's more flexibility with what and how long this content is. And unlike retweets, reblogging users can add their own opinions / perspectives to what they share. * Notes, likes, reblogs, followers... provide a metric for the validation of one's opinions. * The dashboard and blocking system, plus tools like Missing E, let you narrow down the content you want to see and filter out what you don't. * Emphasis on images / highly visual content which can quickly disseminate social messages and encourages the liking / sharing reaction -- similar to how image macros or videos can easily go "viral". * No real name policy, and you can easily change your name / switch your blog URL if need be. * Strong traction in the various fandom communities, which are subcultures in and of themselves and tend to be more receptive to "radical" ideas, as you put it. Disclaimer: I'm not a Tumblr user; just interested in how internet communities work.
- pconner 12y ago
  It's also worth noting that misinformation can spread very quickly. It takes no effort to click "reblog" and then forget about a post forever. On other platforms with this weakness (such as Reddit), there is incentive to discredit incorrect information (you get a lot of comment karma if you do this on Reddit), but there is little incentive to do so on tumblr. Any commentary on a post is not inherently tied to future reblogs of the post, and users can edit the content of reblogs to make it look like that content was written by the post's original author.
- striking 12y ago
  Additionally: you don't have to read what people say about you. You can turn off notifications for reblogs (yes, reblogs are the only way to comment on something) and in fact, commenting on something that you disagree with will make it still louder. A reblog causes the number of Notes to increase even if you disagree with the content. So there's no good way to express your disapproval of something. Tumblr is mathematically biased to prevent feedback from the outside. People who use it rarely change their opinions because of this.
intortus 12y ago
Calling these cultures "radical subcultures" is dismissive. What you're seeing is a more complete expression of humanity. Past media have generally filtered out much of the diversity and angst inherent in human lives, and that tradition has been carried forward to varying degrees by many social media networks. Suicide is everywhere. Trans people are everywhere. Minorities are everywhere. Tumblr just isn't sweeping it under the rug as much as some other sites.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  How is it dismissive? 'Radical subculture' just seems descriptive to me. 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental, and gender identity definitely seems fundamental to peoples' subjective identity. 'Subculture' just indicates a distinct subset of a larger culture. The fact that subcultures can be voluntary, whimsical, or ephemeral doesn't mean they have to be, and I certainly don't assume any lack of seriousness or significance to the notion that someone is a member of this or that subculture.
  - DasIch 12y ago
    I'm not a native english speaker but 'radical' to me has negative connotations that 'fundamental' does not.
    - Crito 12y ago
      From a native english (of the american variety) viewpoint: Neither have positive connotations, but "fundamentalist" is worse. Fundamentalism specifically invokes ideas of religious fundamentalism, particularly "religious right" style protestant beliefs. "Radical" on the other hand is used in a more diverse set of cases. It invokes thoughts of any number of political or religious beliefs that are either outside the mainstream or do not conform with progressive western values as they are traditionally stated. I don't think either is dismissive. Descriptive, with negative connotations, but being critical is not the same as being dismissive.
  - ohkine 12y ago
    > 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental That is not at all what 'radical' means in the context of 'radical sub-culture'. The definition you're looking for is one of: 2. thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company. 3. favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues. I guess you could argue that trans people fall under definition # 2 from the perspective of many (most?) people, but i also think that 'radical sub-culture' generally implies some kind of conscious action — i don't think that simply existing as a member of a minority makes you inherently 'radical'.
mullingitover 12y ago
When you have a publishing platform that's wide open and unmoderated, two things always dominate: activism and porn.
Torgo 12y ago
The site is a first-class citizen on mobile, mobile is a primary platform for many less-privileged classes. Same with Twitter.

wldcordeiro 12y ago

Pseudonymity is a big one and the relative lack of censoring (aside from self-censoring to fit into the prevalent group-think.)

mrec 12y ago
Pseudonymity cuts both ways in this context. You couldn't have something like Reddit's /r/suicidewatch without it.
- wldcordeiro 12y ago
  I'll grant that the pseudonymity cuts both ways but in that mindset doesn't everything? There's trade-offs to pseudonymity, anonymity and real identities but each has contextual value.

timdaub 12y ago

Disclaimer: Only my gf uses tumblr, I don't. I think it's the bubble-ish environment that gets created not only by your followership but also by the fact that tumblr blogs rarely get feedback from outside. Once you've build a sufficient followership around you, every thought you express in that bubble gets some how discussed, accepted and developed. That's why for once tumblr blogs react so harsh to bubble-out-side topics (/r/shittumblrsays) and secondly why I believe it is such a good place for discussion of "radical subcultures".

monksy 12y ago
I was just about to mention the whole filter bubble deal. Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.
- ectopic_cheeto 12y ago
  You can troll on tumblr and write criticism too. Many tumblr users do just that. You can also create echo chambers and circlejerks in Reddit too. /r/tumblrinaction and /r/kotakuinaction for example.
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  > Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Combined with the bandwagon effect of downvotes in many (not all) subreddits, this has the same filter-bubble effect, just by virtue of pushing differently-minded people out (either to seek other subreddits, or off the site altogether). Just look at /r/politics and you'll see this in full force - with a few exceptions, almost any post expressing a somewhat conservative perspective is downvoted massively. This is one of the reason Reddit implemented [score hidden], which seems to have helped somewhat, but not entirely. > Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them. This isn't true only "radicals" - it's true everywhere. And I don't think it's the userbase that's different; it's the structure around it that makes the difference. In other words, the same people will group themselves differently on Tumblr and Reddit, even if they use both sites.

ohkine 12y ago

Being trans is not a 'radical subculture'

igorgue 12y ago
I think he's referring to "people who commit suicide virally" not just Transgenders.
- intortus 12y ago
  Which is also not a radical subculture.
  - blueflow 12y ago
    This is not true. On tumblr, you can get bubbled with everything you say/do/are. And posts glorifying self-harm and suicide are still happening.
  - igorgue 12y ago
    Neither are programmers that don't explain themselves when they say "YOU'RE WRONG. I KNOW WHY BUT I WONT TELL YOU!" In other words you fit perfectly here :)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
adamnemecek 12y ago
killing yourself is a pretty radical solution though.
- joshstrange 12y ago
  And that may be obvious to an adult or someone with a fully developed mind but let's not pretend that when you were this age everything felt 100x more important than it was looking back. This is always going to be the case but it get's better as you get older. At that age being ostracised by classmates and/or parents can feel like the end of the world.

reubenmorais 12y ago

I don't know how it came to be this way, but what happens today is that Tumblr (or a good chunk of it) has a very strong culture of acceptance of everyone and everything, and of rallying to shut down people who try to disturb that safe haven. This applies to all sorts of things, from gender issues to things like self-harm and eating disorders like the article mentions. It's one of the very few places on the Internet where someone who identifies with _any_ radical subculture can expect to be accepted instead of ridiculed.

mintplant 12y ago

Off the top of my head, * Users can self-organize into hashtags, which are easier to navigate and more cohesive than on Twitter. * Custom blog designs make it feel more personal / intimate, à la LiveJournal or MySpace. * Reblogs let content spread quickly. Unlike Twitter, there's more flexibility with what and how long this content is. And unlike retweets, reblogging users can add their own opinions / perspectives to what they share. * Notes, likes, reblogs, followers... provide a metric for the validation of one's opinions. * The dashboard and blocking system, plus tools like Missing E, let you narrow down the content you want to see and filter out what you don't. * Emphasis on images / highly visual content which can quickly disseminate social messages and encourages the liking / sharing reaction -- similar to how image macros or videos can easily go "viral". * No real name policy, and you can easily change your name / switch your blog URL if need be. * Strong traction in the various fandom communities, which are subcultures in and of themselves and tend to be more receptive to "radical" ideas, as you put it. Disclaimer: I'm not a Tumblr user; just interested in how internet communities work.

pconner 12y ago
It's also worth noting that misinformation can spread very quickly. It takes no effort to click "reblog" and then forget about a post forever. On other platforms with this weakness (such as Reddit), there is incentive to discredit incorrect information (you get a lot of comment karma if you do this on Reddit), but there is little incentive to do so on tumblr. Any commentary on a post is not inherently tied to future reblogs of the post, and users can edit the content of reblogs to make it look like that content was written by the post's original author.
striking 12y ago
Additionally: you don't have to read what people say about you. You can turn off notifications for reblogs (yes, reblogs are the only way to comment on something) and in fact, commenting on something that you disagree with will make it still louder. A reblog causes the number of Notes to increase even if you disagree with the content. So there's no good way to express your disapproval of something. Tumblr is mathematically biased to prevent feedback from the outside. People who use it rarely change their opinions because of this.

intortus 12y ago

Calling these cultures "radical subcultures" is dismissive. What you're seeing is a more complete expression of humanity. Past media have generally filtered out much of the diversity and angst inherent in human lives, and that tradition has been carried forward to varying degrees by many social media networks. Suicide is everywhere. Trans people are everywhere. Minorities are everywhere. Tumblr just isn't sweeping it under the rug as much as some other sites.

anigbrowl 12y ago
How is it dismissive? 'Radical subculture' just seems descriptive to me. 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental, and gender identity definitely seems fundamental to peoples' subjective identity. 'Subculture' just indicates a distinct subset of a larger culture. The fact that subcultures can be voluntary, whimsical, or ephemeral doesn't mean they have to be, and I certainly don't assume any lack of seriousness or significance to the notion that someone is a member of this or that subculture.
- DasIch 12y ago
  I'm not a native english speaker but 'radical' to me has negative connotations that 'fundamental' does not.
  - Crito 12y ago
    From a native english (of the american variety) viewpoint: Neither have positive connotations, but "fundamentalist" is worse. Fundamentalism specifically invokes ideas of religious fundamentalism, particularly "religious right" style protestant beliefs. "Radical" on the other hand is used in a more diverse set of cases. It invokes thoughts of any number of political or religious beliefs that are either outside the mainstream or do not conform with progressive western values as they are traditionally stated. I don't think either is dismissive. Descriptive, with negative connotations, but being critical is not the same as being dismissive.
- ohkine 12y ago
  > 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental That is not at all what 'radical' means in the context of 'radical sub-culture'. The definition you're looking for is one of: 2. thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company. 3. favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues. I guess you could argue that trans people fall under definition # 2 from the perspective of many (most?) people, but i also think that 'radical sub-culture' generally implies some kind of conscious action — i don't think that simply existing as a member of a minority makes you inherently 'radical'.

mullingitover 12y ago

When you have a publishing platform that's wide open and unmoderated, two things always dominate: activism and porn.

Torgo 12y ago

The site is a first-class citizen on mobile, mobile is a primary platform for many less-privileged classes. Same with Twitter.