6 ms·

Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic

42 points by Libertatea 12y ago

briandoll 12y ago
Maybe focus on addressing critical societal issues instead of blaming a blog platform? This narrative is insane.
- forrestthewoods 12y ago
  When there is a mass shooting and the media covers it extensively and gratuitously they significantly increase the chance of additional shootings in the following weeks. When someone commits suicide and it gets a lot of attention there is an increase in suicides in the following weeks. That's worth talking about.
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    Ok, so if mainstream news still hasn't figured out how to handle this why do we expect Tumblr to be on top of it? Mainstream news sets a TERRIBLE example of how to handle tragedies like this. I agree with briandoll, let's stop blaming Tumblr for doing nothing wrong (They aren't using this in marketing or as a way to get more users/eyeballs) and focus on the flaws in society that lead to these kids taking their lives. When the news covers shoots (or stories like this) they ARE trying to attract more viewer, it's a very different thing IMHO to just leaving up posts and allowing users to share. I see Tumblr taking down posts extremely disrespectful to the deceased. Let's not pretend a blogging platform is to blame, instead let's blame the real people at fault: the parents and the communities that drove these kids to what they saw as their only option.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Some social media sites will restrict information that is directly harmful -- you can't create a subreddit to share methods of suicide for example -- so they may want to consider whether they've drawn the line in the right place. If a site bans pro-anorexic content they've already said they're happy to restrict free speech if there's a strong enough protective need.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Suicide contagion is a known phenomenon, and mentioned in the article. Is it rational? No, but neither are suicidal people. Teens are at particular risk because of unfamiliar hormonal loading. It's not the sort of problem where you can easily engineer away the underlying causes so it makes sense to deal with the social manifestations. some social causes can be engineered away, but in many respects suicide is a radical political act that's at odds with deeply ingrained societal ideology (eg the extremely attenuated legal rights of juveniles in the US) which are a) not amenable to short-term change, and b) not so simply causal that change will automatically lower suicide rates.
- rhino369 12y ago
  The blog platform is part of society and it is very much a part of their sub-society. Suicide contagion is a real phenomenon and Tumblr societies seem to be glorifying it. This might just be my privilege leaking, but I also wonder if spending so much time documenting and discussing injustice depresses people and makes them feel hopeless. There is a very strong contingent on Tumblr that exists to find something to be outraged about every single day. I don't mean we should whitewash discrimination and injustice, but I seriously doubt wallowing in it helps.
fragsworth 12y ago
What is it about Tumblr that makes it so appealing to radical subcultures? And what is it that makes those subcultures thrive so well in that community?
- wldcordeiro 12y ago
  Pseudonymity is a big one and the relative lack of censoring (aside from self-censoring to fit into the prevalent group-think.)
  - mrec 12y ago
    Pseudonymity cuts both ways in this context. You couldn't have something like Reddit's /r/suicidewatch without it.
    - wldcordeiro 12y ago
      I'll grant that the pseudonymity cuts both ways but in that mindset doesn't everything? There's trade-offs to pseudonymity, anonymity and real identities but each has contextual value.
- timdaub 12y ago
  Disclaimer: Only my gf uses tumblr, I don't. I think it's the bubble-ish environment that gets created not only by your followership but also by the fact that tumblr blogs rarely get feedback from outside. Once you've build a sufficient followership around you, every thought you express in that bubble gets some how discussed, accepted and developed. That's why for once tumblr blogs react so harsh to bubble-out-side topics (/r/shittumblrsays) and secondly why I believe it is such a good place for discussion of "radical subcultures".
  - monksy 12y ago
    I was just about to mention the whole filter bubble deal. Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.
DanBC 12y ago
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/278119/Annual_Report_FINAL_revised.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... The national suicide prevention strategy has recognised social media as something to be aware of. This concern is reflected in some local strategies - it's possibly going to be in Gloucestershire's suicide prevention strategy. People worked hard to get media outlets to develop guidelines that balance freedom of speech with reducing harm. The national union of journalists has pretty good guidelines. https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/guidelines-on-reporting-on-mental-health-suicide/ https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/guidelines-on-reporting-on-menta... Perhaps the social media industry could set up some meta group to draw up guidelines around social responsibility? Many sites have rules that ban pro-anorexia information.
- joshstrange 12y ago
  Is there a similar document for US-news (Covering responsible reporting for situations like this)?
ZoFreX 12y ago
Is three teens in two months really an epidemic? If these notes were passed around on paper, would they be blaming paper? I think all the effort of this misguided article would be much better spent tackling transphobia rather than advocating we curtail free speech.
- Crito 12y ago
  You are right in a way. Three teens from one highschool would probably make the local news (it did at my highschool, though there wasn't much going on in that town to report on), but not much more. There is more going on than just three dead teens though. There is also the entire social movement surrounding these three people. Seemingly thousands of people talking about those three deaths. That is much more notable.
- blueflow 12y ago
  The generic problem on Tumblr still exists. Like those posts about romanticizing her suicide. Hate & Shame posts are still happen regularly, and people seeing gender issues in everything is something why people outside tumblr make fun of it. Its not only about transphobia, its about how youngsters use tumblr.
- Torgo 12y ago
  Caitlin Dewey's articles tend to be provocative and simplistic. It is worth doing independent checking before assuming this article is on to anything.
- krick 12y ago
  Anything can be epidemic to journalist, when he doesn't know what else to write about.
psychometry 12y ago
Is there really an epidemic? Are there any stats on this?
stevenmays 12y ago
Shouldn't this have a trigger warning on it? In all seriousness, many communities on Tumblr exist to find stuff on the internet to get outraged about. "The constantly outraged are locked in a desperate struggle to find meaning in things that do not impact their lives." Tumblr communities also seems to idolize victimhood. Nothing demonstrates your level of victimhood quite like suicide. So, if you take generally marginalized groups (body size, sexuality, etc), run around searching for things to get angry about, and celebrate their status as societies scapegoats and victims it does not surprise me that Tumblr would have high suicide rates.
auganov 12y ago
Tumblr is mostly about nice looking pictures. Architecture, food, fashion etc. People don't really talk or socialize on there too much. I feel like it's just by correlation that tumblr users might be more likely to have or express issues. It seems like "blogging" platforms always had that demographic. Most people would just use them as digital diaries. So unsuprisingly you'd find diaries of depressed people. Because, well, some people just are. Tumblr is just the latest, most mainstream iteration of the phenomenon.
otakucode 12y ago
If you wish to prevent teen suicide, your task really isn't as difficult as you might think. You might be totally unwilling to do it, though. How about making it so teens lives don't suck ass? How about helping them instead of actively trying to hurt them with good intentions? It's not like adolescence is some new thing that just popped up, but society has gotten progressively worse at dealing with it for a long time. We know that in cultures that empower adolescents and expect them to join the adult world, there is no such creature as the 'angsty teen'. We create that creature when we insist on treating them like children simply because we don't know what else to do with them with our current social structure - a structure derived from the needs of factory owners around the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and little-changed since. Do you want to stop teen suicide if it means respecting them as human beings? What if you have to let them make the decisions that control their lives instead of you? Are you willing to admit that you have talked about adolescents the way racists used to talk about minorities, and the way men used to talk about women? Are you ready to admit that you've wronged a part of humanity, even though you had to pass through that class yourself? What you want and what needs to be done to accomplish it are not always things you can live with. Demanding that you should be able to have your desires met without having to pay the price is very immature. If you want teen suicide to go away but you still get to rob them of their autonomy and denigrate them, you are doing exactly this.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  We know that in cultures that empower adolescents and expect them to join the adult world, there is no such creature as the 'angsty teen'. This sort of argument is best backed up with examples of what you have in mind.
- bhayden 12y ago
  This issue with letting a teen do whatever he or she wants is that a parent is legally responsible for them. If my teenager son destroys thousands of dollars worth of property, guess who pays for it? There needs to be a some level of control over teenagers, and the level needs to be less than that given to an adult.
james-bronze 12y ago
As some who is in the thick of the "social justice" part of tumblr, or whatever you want to call it, I thought I'd put my two cents in. I actually saw this article on Tumblr, I follow the Hacker News bot. This article was ignorant, jumped to conclusions, and not very well informed in general. It quoted a bunch of "experts" who didn't seam to understand what tumblr is. They think that by talking about Leehla and Zander we are glorifying them, and therefor suicide, as appose to remembering them for who they wanted to be, and trying to make a safe and excepting environment for trans* kids. I guess I'm just tired of adults reading one or two things and thinking they know better simply because of seniority. The reporter, the white, middle aged Caitlin Dewey, has a reputation for being facile and provocative. She's probably never been on Tumblr. They expert's she quotes, while educated, are still probably out of their depth. While some glorifying type blogs do exist (you can't generalize tumblr; there are more than 221 million blogs) the majority of blogs about mental illness, feminism, minority rights, etc, are based on trying to educate people and provide them with resources and a safe, understanding place. How about adults stop pointing fingers at the big scary internet and put time and effort into, I don't know, making safe spaces for teens so they aren't suicidal in the first place? That's what people on tumblr are trying to do when they "martyrize" Leehla Alcorn. They're putting a face on their movement. Not a movement to glorify suicide. A movement to outlaw trans* conversion therapy, and get proper sex ed in schools. A movement to try and stop teen's lives from being a living hell, a movement to stop teens from being pushed to suicide. A movement that many adults can't seem to be bothered with--but oh no! The teenagers are obviously trying to get each other to kill themselves because it's "cool".

42 points by Libertatea 12y ago

briandoll 12y ago

Maybe focus on addressing critical societal issues instead of blaming a blog platform? This narrative is insane.

forrestthewoods 12y ago
When there is a mass shooting and the media covers it extensively and gratuitously they significantly increase the chance of additional shootings in the following weeks. When someone commits suicide and it gets a lot of attention there is an increase in suicides in the following weeks. That's worth talking about.
- joshstrange 12y ago
  Ok, so if mainstream news still hasn't figured out how to handle this why do we expect Tumblr to be on top of it? Mainstream news sets a TERRIBLE example of how to handle tragedies like this. I agree with briandoll, let's stop blaming Tumblr for doing nothing wrong (They aren't using this in marketing or as a way to get more users/eyeballs) and focus on the flaws in society that lead to these kids taking their lives. When the news covers shoots (or stories like this) they ARE trying to attract more viewer, it's a very different thing IMHO to just leaving up posts and allowing users to share. I see Tumblr taking down posts extremely disrespectful to the deceased. Let's not pretend a blogging platform is to blame, instead let's blame the real people at fault: the parents and the communities that drove these kids to what they saw as their only option.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Some social media sites will restrict information that is directly harmful -- you can't create a subreddit to share methods of suicide for example -- so they may want to consider whether they've drawn the line in the right place. If a site bans pro-anorexic content they've already said they're happy to restrict free speech if there's a strong enough protective need.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Suicide contagion is a known phenomenon, and mentioned in the article. Is it rational? No, but neither are suicidal people. Teens are at particular risk because of unfamiliar hormonal loading. It's not the sort of problem where you can easily engineer away the underlying causes so it makes sense to deal with the social manifestations. some social causes can be engineered away, but in many respects suicide is a radical political act that's at odds with deeply ingrained societal ideology (eg the extremely attenuated legal rights of juveniles in the US) which are a) not amenable to short-term change, and b) not so simply causal that change will automatically lower suicide rates.
rhino369 12y ago
The blog platform is part of society and it is very much a part of their sub-society. Suicide contagion is a real phenomenon and Tumblr societies seem to be glorifying it. This might just be my privilege leaking, but I also wonder if spending so much time documenting and discussing injustice depresses people and makes them feel hopeless. There is a very strong contingent on Tumblr that exists to find something to be outraged about every single day. I don't mean we should whitewash discrimination and injustice, but I seriously doubt wallowing in it helps.

fragsworth 12y ago

What is it about Tumblr that makes it so appealing to radical subcultures? And what is it that makes those subcultures thrive so well in that community?

wldcordeiro 12y ago
Pseudonymity is a big one and the relative lack of censoring (aside from self-censoring to fit into the prevalent group-think.)
- mrec 12y ago
  Pseudonymity cuts both ways in this context. You couldn't have something like Reddit's /r/suicidewatch without it.
  - wldcordeiro 12y ago
    I'll grant that the pseudonymity cuts both ways but in that mindset doesn't everything? There's trade-offs to pseudonymity, anonymity and real identities but each has contextual value.
timdaub 12y ago
Disclaimer: Only my gf uses tumblr, I don't. I think it's the bubble-ish environment that gets created not only by your followership but also by the fact that tumblr blogs rarely get feedback from outside. Once you've build a sufficient followership around you, every thought you express in that bubble gets some how discussed, accepted and developed. That's why for once tumblr blogs react so harsh to bubble-out-side topics (/r/shittumblrsays) and secondly why I believe it is such a good place for discussion of "radical subcultures".
- monksy 12y ago
  I was just about to mention the whole filter bubble deal. Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.

DanBC 12y ago

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/278119/Annual_Report_FINAL_revised.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... The national suicide prevention strategy has recognised social media as something to be aware of. This concern is reflected in some local strategies - it's possibly going to be in Gloucestershire's suicide prevention strategy. People worked hard to get media outlets to develop guidelines that balance freedom of speech with reducing harm. The national union of journalists has pretty good guidelines. https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/guidelines-on-reporting-on-mental-health-suicide/ https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/guidelines-on-reporting-on-menta... Perhaps the social media industry could set up some meta group to draw up guidelines around social responsibility? Many sites have rules that ban pro-anorexia information.

joshstrange 12y ago
Is there a similar document for US-news (Covering responsible reporting for situations like this)?

ZoFreX 12y ago

Is three teens in two months really an epidemic? If these notes were passed around on paper, would they be blaming paper? I think all the effort of this misguided article would be much better spent tackling transphobia rather than advocating we curtail free speech.

Crito 12y ago
You are right in a way. Three teens from one highschool would probably make the local news (it did at my highschool, though there wasn't much going on in that town to report on), but not much more. There is more going on than just three dead teens though. There is also the entire social movement surrounding these three people. Seemingly thousands of people talking about those three deaths. That is much more notable.
blueflow 12y ago
The generic problem on Tumblr still exists. Like those posts about romanticizing her suicide. Hate & Shame posts are still happen regularly, and people seeing gender issues in everything is something why people outside tumblr make fun of it. Its not only about transphobia, its about how youngsters use tumblr.
Torgo 12y ago
Caitlin Dewey's articles tend to be provocative and simplistic. It is worth doing independent checking before assuming this article is on to anything.
krick 12y ago
Anything can be epidemic to journalist, when he doesn't know what else to write about.

psychometry 12y ago

Is there really an epidemic? Are there any stats on this?

stevenmays 12y ago

Shouldn't this have a trigger warning on it? In all seriousness, many communities on Tumblr exist to find stuff on the internet to get outraged about. "The constantly outraged are locked in a desperate struggle to find meaning in things that do not impact their lives." Tumblr communities also seems to idolize victimhood. Nothing demonstrates your level of victimhood quite like suicide. So, if you take generally marginalized groups (body size, sexuality, etc), run around searching for things to get angry about, and celebrate their status as societies scapegoats and victims it does not surprise me that Tumblr would have high suicide rates.

auganov 12y ago

Tumblr is mostly about nice looking pictures. Architecture, food, fashion etc. People don't really talk or socialize on there too much. I feel like it's just by correlation that tumblr users might be more likely to have or express issues. It seems like "blogging" platforms always had that demographic. Most people would just use them as digital diaries. So unsuprisingly you'd find diaries of depressed people. Because, well, some people just are. Tumblr is just the latest, most mainstream iteration of the phenomenon.

otakucode 12y ago

If you wish to prevent teen suicide, your task really isn't as difficult as you might think. You might be totally unwilling to do it, though. How about making it so teens lives don't suck ass? How about helping them instead of actively trying to hurt them with good intentions? It's not like adolescence is some new thing that just popped up, but society has gotten progressively worse at dealing with it for a long time. We know that in cultures that empower adolescents and expect them to join the adult world, there is no such creature as the 'angsty teen'. We create that creature when we insist on treating them like children simply because we don't know what else to do with them with our current social structure - a structure derived from the needs of factory owners around the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and little-changed since. Do you want to stop teen suicide if it means respecting them as human beings? What if you have to let them make the decisions that control their lives instead of you? Are you willing to admit that you have talked about adolescents the way racists used to talk about minorities, and the way men used to talk about women? Are you ready to admit that you've wronged a part of humanity, even though you had to pass through that class yourself? What you want and what needs to be done to accomplish it are not always things you can live with. Demanding that you should be able to have your desires met without having to pay the price is very immature. If you want teen suicide to go away but you still get to rob them of their autonomy and denigrate them, you are doing exactly this.

anigbrowl 12y ago
We know that in cultures that empower adolescents and expect them to join the adult world, there is no such creature as the 'angsty teen'. This sort of argument is best backed up with examples of what you have in mind.
bhayden 12y ago
This issue with letting a teen do whatever he or she wants is that a parent is legally responsible for them. If my teenager son destroys thousands of dollars worth of property, guess who pays for it? There needs to be a some level of control over teenagers, and the level needs to be less than that given to an adult.

james-bronze 12y ago

As some who is in the thick of the "social justice" part of tumblr, or whatever you want to call it, I thought I'd put my two cents in. I actually saw this article on Tumblr, I follow the Hacker News bot. This article was ignorant, jumped to conclusions, and not very well informed in general. It quoted a bunch of "experts" who didn't seam to understand what tumblr is. They think that by talking about Leehla and Zander we are glorifying them, and therefor suicide, as appose to remembering them for who they wanted to be, and trying to make a safe and excepting environment for trans* kids. I guess I'm just tired of adults reading one or two things and thinking they know better simply because of seniority. The reporter, the white, middle aged Caitlin Dewey, has a reputation for being facile and provocative. She's probably never been on Tumblr. They expert's she quotes, while educated, are still probably out of their depth. While some glorifying type blogs do exist (you can't generalize tumblr; there are more than 221 million blogs) the majority of blogs about mental illness, feminism, minority rights, etc, are based on trying to educate people and provide them with resources and a safe, understanding place. How about adults stop pointing fingers at the big scary internet and put time and effort into, I don't know, making safe spaces for teens so they aren't suicidal in the first place? That's what people on tumblr are trying to do when they "martyrize" Leehla Alcorn. They're putting a face on their movement. Not a movement to glorify suicide. A movement to outlaw trans* conversion therapy, and get proper sex ed in schools. A movement to try and stop teen's lives from being a living hell, a movement to stop teens from being pushed to suicide. A movement that many adults can't seem to be bothered with--but oh no! The teenagers are obviously trying to get each other to kill themselves because it's "cool".